How important is charging only to 80%?

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ByeFO

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
69
Location
Philadelphia area
Is there a problem if I need to charge the Leaf to 100% for the one day a week I have an after-work errand to run?

I usually charge it to 80% most work days. I get the Leaf "low battery warning" just a few miles from home, so no big deal. I prob couldn't add the after-work errand on 80% charge day, though.

Thanks!
 
No problem at all, in fact just the opposite - doing a full charge periodically is good for the pack. Just don't leave the car at 100% SOC for more than an hour or two and try to avoid charging when it's hot out
 
The same people who advise you to not charge above 80% also warn you to not discharge below 20%. Sounds like you are going to break one "rule" or the other. My advice is to use your car in whatever way meets your needs.
 
I charge my leaf to 100% 4-5 days a week. It finishes charging about 30 minutes before I leave in the morning. I bought the car as a commuter and use it as such.
 
I have always charged to 100% (both 2011 and 2015). I also typically discharge to LBW or VLBW and battery deterioration on both vehicles was and is commensurate with others in Phoenix who tried to "baby" their batteries so I recommend that you charge it and drive it as you need. If you can avoid charging when the battery is hot and minimize the time that it sits at 100%, those are probably good ideas. Unfortunately, I would never be able to charge in the summer if I worried too much about charging when at 8 temperature bars or higher. I just started a QC at 9 bars and expect it to be 10 or 11 bars when finished.
 
hackdroot said:
I charge my leaf to 100% 4-5 days a week. It finishes charging about 30 minutes before I leave in the morning. I bought the car as a commuter and use it as such.

+1

That is exactly what I do.
 
Dooglas said:
The same people who advise you to not charge above 80% also warn you to not discharge below 20%. Sounds like you are going to break one "rule" or the other. My advice is to use your car in whatever way meets your needs.

Who exactly advises people "to not charge above 80%"?
 
Dooglas said:
The same people who advise you to not charge above 80% also warn you to not discharge below 20%. Sounds like you are going to break one "rule" or the other. My advice is to use your car in whatever way meets your needs.

Those are apples and oranges comparisons that leave out the relevant details.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Who exactly advises people "to not charge above 80%"?
The '13 Leaf manual (last US model year to have a setting to charge to 80%) does.

OP can download a copy from https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/navigation/manualsGuide and search for 80%. It's all over the place, besides referring to 80% mode as long life mode and "improves battery longevity".

Some bits from page EV-24
To maximize vehicle range, NISSAN recommends
using the default setting, long distance
mode (100% charge). To maximize the battery’s
useful life, use the following driving and charging
habits where possible:
...
Avoid sustained high battery state of charge
(caused, for example, by frequently charging to
100% state of charge and/or leaving the battery
above 80% state of charge for long periods of
time).
• Allow the battery charge to be below at least
80% before charging
Unfortunately, Nissan has never publicly provided us with any battery degradation info for 80% vs. 100% or any other % SoC vs. temp and/or temp. Nor have they said how much better it is (if any) to only charge to 80% or if it's bad to run below 20% or whatever %.

The only warnings I quickly found about low SoC are along these lines:
To prevent damage to the Li-ion battery:
...
Do not leave your vehicle for over 14
days where the Li-ion battery available
charge gauge reaches a zero or near
zero (state of charge).
Avoid leaving your vehicle for over 14 days
where the Li-ion battery available charge gauge
reaches a zero or near zero (state of charge).
 
The '13 Leaf manual (last US model year to have a setting to charge to 80%) does.

We don't disagree often, but we do here. The person I quoted was implying that people were telling others not to charge above 80% - period. No one does that, including Nissan. What we (and Nissan in 2013) DO do is tell people not to leave the car charged at or near 100% for long periods. I and everyone else I read here advises charging to 100% at least occasionally, to balance the pack, and most of us also say to feel free to charge to 100% as long as the car is driven not long afterwards. Now the water is muddy, and for no good reason.
 
FWIW, we've had countless threads about 80% vs. 100%. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=21821 was one. http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=479737#p479737 is someone advising
baustin said:
For longest life, the battery charge level should be between 20% and 80% when sitting idle. There is nothing wrong with charging to 100%, just don't let it sit at 100% for extended periods, especially in high heat. I would suggest using the charge timer during the night, so the car is ready to go within an hour of when you are. When charging at work, plug it in sometime after lunch, so it is done just before you leave.

I'm not sure Nissan has published a list of how to maintain the battery warranty. Just try to avoid charging, if at all possible, when the battery is hot, and do not charge it to 100% and leave it there day-after-day without driving it.

Googling for the below will turn up other threads along these lines:
site:mynissanleaf.com 20% 80% charge
site:mynissanleaf.com 80% charge
 
Yes, this gets debated regularly. Now, back to the current dispute. Are you saying that we here at MNL are telling people never to charge a Leaf to 100%? Because someone just claimed that, and you seem to be supporting him or her in that claim. Why, I have no idea.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Are you saying that we here at MNL are telling people never to charge a Leaf to 100%?
Maybe so. I don't recall who, if any.
LeftieBiker said:
Because someone just claimed that, and you seem to be supporting him or her in that claim. Why, I have no idea.
I'm just presenting to the OP what the manual says and examples of this debate given the various li-ion battery literature, Nissan's hints/guidelines, people's various beliefs, etc.

For me, I generally only charge to 80% except for the few times where I prefer to have more than 80% or the full 100%. My commute's short enough (no more than ~13 miles each way) that charging to 80% is more than enough to go home and make it back to work, where I can charge for free. I live in and work in hotter parts of the SF Bay Area. So, unfortunately, my battery doesn't have anywhere close to as good as the Seattle area, Oregon, and cooler cities in the Bay Area like SF, Pacifica, Half Moon Bay, etc.

On weekends, to avoid having to charge much/at all at home, I do break the rule and the car might be at as high as 90 to 92% (per dash display) SoC for 12 to 16+ hours. This is the result of charging to 100% at work and often using free public L2 on the way home/on the weekend. Unless I hypermile, I can't arrive home w/any higher than 92%.

I don't care generally about the "20%" guideline but I've personally never left my car at below 10% for more than 6 or 7 hours, nor do I run it that low regularly. I'm not really convinced that there's any issue with low SoC beyond what I quoted in the manual. I've never run my cars to turtle yet but wouldn't want to leave it in turtle (if I did) for more than a day.

FWIW, some have attributed the gen 1 Volt's apparent minimal degradation to its battery thermal management and only using a narrower SoC range in the middle of the battery than the Leaf typically does. Teslas also have battery thermal management and Model S reportedly suffers from minimal degradation probably due to this, many trips resulting in not very high DoD and I suspect many owners don't often charge to 100% as they (AFAIK) have some sort of charge limit % UI. Looks like they allow 10% and 2% increments.

Examples of literature: (not that some of the data/discussion may not be of the variant the Leaf uses)
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_store_batteries
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion
 
I charge my eGolf to 80% to simply have regen available . At 100% I have to wait a while. Since the car is leased for 3 years and I plan to turn it in the state of the battery is irreverent but 80% is a convenience.
 
Each situation is different.

My wife will take the Leaf to her place of work (less than 3 miles away) and sometimes it just sits there the rest of the day. So I charge to 80%. That way it sits at her job at 76% instead of at 96% all day in the sun.

Charging to 80% does give you regen right away. So it's more efficient if you have to take off in stop and go traffic right away in the mornings.

An idea I've had is to only charge to 70% with 12 capacity bars, 80% with 11 bars, then 90% with 10 bars, and then 100% at 9 bars. That way, by the time I get the traction battery replaced at 8 bars the whole time I'll have had approximately the same range. Not feeling range degradation would be nice, I think.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The '13 Leaf manual (last US model year to have a setting to charge to 80%) does.

We don't disagree often, but we do here. The person I quoted was implying that people were telling others not to charge above 80% - period. No one does that, including Nissan. What we (and Nissan in 2013) DO do is tell people not to leave the car charged at or near 100% for long periods. I and everyone else I read here advises charging to 100% at least occasionally, to balance the pack, and most of us also say to feel free to charge to 100% as long as the car is driven not long afterwards. Now the water is muddy, and for no good reason.

My 2103 Leaf is my primary transportation, driven almost everyday. I love keeping INF-MPG 100% charged even though I KNOW it's not best for it's traction battery. And it's so easy and quick now that I had 240VAC run to each car space in my three car garages!

John Kuthe...
 
cwerdna said:
LeftieBiker said:
Are you saying that we here at MNL are telling people never to charge a Leaf to 100%?
Maybe so. I don't recall who, if any.
Resurrecting a zombie thread... to satisfy my curiosity about something else, I did find a few. This is probably nowhere near complete.

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=486713#p486713
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=481592#p481592
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=215218#p215218
 
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