Ford Focus EV

I like the grill better than Leaf. But not the side port for charging.
Can't the blue oval in front flip up to plug in?

Even Leaf has liquid cooled motor and inverter and yes there is the a/c condensor

I think we have all been "conditioned" to look for a grill in the front. It will be interesting to see what forms EVs will take in future.

evnow said:

... 6.6kw charger. Speculation was next year Leaf will upgrade ... the fact that Focus has it makes that more likely now.

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Thanks. This forum is so full of info. I will go check it out.

Here is one more bit of info from the keynote, that would interest people here.

Ford says their Leviton + Best Buy Geek Squad install will cost 30% less than the "competition". They also compared the plug-in type Leviton EVSE to hard wired AV one.

They made a show of two guys from the "Geek" squad coming and hanging the Leviton EVSE showing how "fast" it is. Obviously nothing was mentioned about getting that plug put in or any needed panel upgrades etc. I hope Ford sets more realistic expectations about EVSE install with their customers.

drees said:

J1772 can charge at much faster rates than even what Ford will be doing with the Focus EV...

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But can J1772 charge at a rate high enough to eliminate the need for a DC fast charge option? Looking under that port cover only reveals one plug; kind of a shame to have all that battery thermal management plumbing in place with no DC fast charge to really put it through its paces.

Despite the fact that I actually like the looks (both inside and outside) of the Focus a bit better than the Leaf, I think this might be a deal-breaker for me.. Though I don't foresee myself driving down I-5 to Portland via fast charge anytime soon, it is nice to know that the Leaf has this capability once the charging stations are there..

Really? I'd gladly trade the L3 port on the Leaf for a 6.6kW charger.

There will be far more 6+kW L2 facilities than the occasional L3, and I intend to do more opportunistic charging than long-distance driving. Picking up charge twice as fast from these public chargers is far more valuable than the occasional quicker charge.

GroundLoop said:

Really? I'd gladly trade the L3 port on the Leaf for a 6.6kW charger.

There will be far more 6+kW L2 facilities than the occasional L3, and I intend to do more opportunistic charging than long-distance driving. Picking up charge twice as fast from these public chargers is far more valuable than the occasional quicker charge.

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I think that the integration of EV's into the grid is dependent on minimizing "opportunistic" peak demand charging. Eventually, this will be regulated by market prices. Public chargers will have time-of-use rates, just as utilities charge more for peak than off-peak electricity for your home.

So the potential EV buyer should be considering how much of their total charging can be done off peak, whether at home or elsewhere. I realize that for now L2 charging is often "free" to the driver, but plugging your car in on a hot summer afternoon in California is very expensive to everyone else paying an electricity bill.

I expect to use "opportunistic" charging only when an unplanned detour, or a longer trip, requires it. And for these occasions, fast charging at L3 will be far superior.

3691 lbs, as widely reported.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/11q1/2012_ford_focus_electric_official_photos_and_info-auto_shows

One hefty compact car.

Plug that into your range calculations.

edatoakrun said:

3691 lbs, as widely reported.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/11q1/2012_ford_focus_electric_official_photos_and_info-auto_shows

One hefty compact car.

Plug that into your range calculations.

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That is one fat pig of a compact EV. When will auto makers besides Think and Tesla figure out that weight matters? Good luck if that weight is true. Ouch!

that buy it, move, plug it in again is what i am talking about....dont care if its 3.3 !~! 6.6 is a bonus


now drop that price to $700 and i am in

edatoakrun said:

3691 lbs, as widely reported.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/11q1/2012_ford_focus_electric_official_photos_and_info-auto_shows

One hefty compact car.

Plug that into your range calculations.

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So, 330 lb more than the Leaf. Another effect of a conversion. No wonder they compared mpge with volt rather than Leaf.

Interesting question would be - is the 23 kwh the "total" or usable capacity ?

My guess is - we have heard all the +ve things about Focus already - we will slowly get to hear the -ve things.

GroundLoop said:

Really? I'd gladly trade the L3 port on the Leaf for a 6.6kW charger.

There will be far more 6+kW L2 facilities than the occasional L3, and I intend to do more opportunistic charging than long-distance driving. Picking up charge twice as fast from these public chargers is far more valuable than the occasional quicker charge.

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Agreed, in time people will see the value of this, if I could buy a larger charger upgrade at the time of order for $700 I would have, I bet VERY few use L3 as much as they think and some never, but I bet those people find that they are missing charging opportunities with the 3.3 charger.

EVDRIVER said:

Agreed, in time people will see the value of this, if I could buy a larger charger upgrade at the time of order for $700 I would have, I bet VERY few use L3 as much as they think and some never, but I bet those people find that they are missing charging opportunities with the 3.3 charger.

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Depends on the region, I think. People in EV Project places with a lot of L3s will get to use them - not the others. Also, people in larger metros (LA etc) will use more of L2 opportunity charging - since they would be doing 60 to 70 miles per trip.

evnow said:

edatoakrun said:

3691 lbs, as widely reported.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/11q1/2012_ford_focus_electric_official_photos_and_info-auto_shows

One hefty compact car.

Plug that into your range calculations.

Click to expand...

So, 330 lb more than the Leaf. Another effect of a conversion. No wonder they compared mpge with volt rather than Leaf.

Interesting question would be - is the 23 kwh the "total" or usable capacity ?

My guess is - we have heard all the +ve things about Focus already - we will slowly get to hear the -ve things.

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Or pack water cooling, or a larger overall pack, etc. Regardless it is far to heavy for an EV in it's class and if that number is true I would take it off my list no matter how great it is otherwise, it's WAY too heavy.

sjfotos said:

Here is the list, including a few Northern type cities...perhaps as a result of the 'liquid' battery management system, which I have not yet seen details on:


Atlanta, Ga.
Austin, Texas
Houston, Texas
Boston, Ma.
Chicago, Ill.
Denver, Colo.
Detroit, Mich.
Los Angeles, Calif.
New York, N.Y.
Orlando, Fla.
Phoenix, Ariz.
Tucson, Ariz.
Portland, Ore.
Raleigh-Durham, N.C.
Richmond, Va.
San Francisco, Calif.
San Diego, Calif.
Seattle, Wash.
Washington, D.C.

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Tucson is on the list. Hmmmm! Hurry up, Nissan. Start making some deliveries our way. No deliveries to our city. Pending - pending - pending. Let us know something soon. There is Ford dealership about a mile from my house.

It's all going to come down to price now. Since Nissan pushed tier 2 states back, the Focus EV will be in my city around the same time. It's very tempting, especially with the 6.6 charger and battery heating/cooling.

rsmith1 said:

It's all going to come down to price now. Since Nissan pushed tier 2 states back, the Focus EV will be in my city around the same time. It's very tempting, especially with the 6.6 charger and battery heating/cooling.

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What about the extra 300 plus pounds you get, that's going to cost quite a bit every time you drive

We were whining about the LEAF weight until practically the first delivery. Now all that's quiet and we want to pick on Ford for another 2-3 passenger equivalent?

Well, the way I see it is this: weight is the linear enemy of both speed and hills and the quadratic enemy of acceleration, but in no way effects our worst enemy, the dreaded cubic drag. But what really matters is range. Now Nissan said they could do 100 mi under EPA LA04 (whatever it is called now) and in the end, they beat it in some road tests. But the EPA shot back with a 20% penalty for adverse weather with a final answer of 73 mi.

Now Ford is saying they can get 100 mi on a 4% smaller battery and a 300 lb-mass heavier car. One way this could be the case is if the new Focus is massively better engineered for aerodynamics than the LEAF and this would be in a car maker's interest regardless of EV or ICEV as both pay the for the cost of drag and eking out a fraction of a coefficient of drag can pay big dividends, especially at speed. There are of course other ways Ford may have an improved design, specifically with a better inverter or more efficient electric motor, though I don't know how this could be done personally; Damn it, Jim, IANAEE.

My point is simply this: wait for the EPA LA04 numbers, and the official EPA number before you judge the weight. In fact, a heavier car that could get the same mileage as the LEAF has one advantage in that additional passengers or cargo have less of a relative effect because they would make up a smaller percentage of the weight of the car.

But[/b], all that said, the real question will come from mounting hills, because that's one aspect of automotive efficiency that's not well represented in the EPA tests and so although the Rolling Resistance and Acceleration will take equal hits for weight and compensated for in design, it's an uphill battle to go uphill.

A 10% weight increase will roughly decrease efficiency by 5% (don't have link).

BTW, I doubt Focus will have a better CD than Leaf. Also looking at their statement of efficiency (mpge rating) being better than Volt but only "comparable" to competition - I guess Focus will be somewhere between Volt's 93 and Leaf's 99 (IIRC).

ps : Timehorse, do you have links to how EPA calculates EV range ? I know they are trying to change stuff - not sure what exact method they used.

evnow said:

A 10% weight increase will roughly decrease efficiency by 5% (don't have link).

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Impossible to make generalizations like that without knowing the drive cycle...

In the city weight can make a big difference. On the highway, it can be nearly negligible.