Business model of the NOT "free...forever" Tesla DC network

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"FREE" DC clashes with reality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV3Gne_ZuOo

Warning. I Arrived here at 5:15p. m. and waited in line. All fine, but here it is 9:00p. m. and I'm still here. I have another 40 minutes to go to get enough charge to my next supercharger on hwy 5 . 3 chargers share the same power, it seems anyway and nothing like the newer chargers that are in pairs of 2...
That's yesterday in Corning CA, where I've never seen more than one Tesla at a time, myself.

This is right across the street from the RV park where I usually make my final charge stop when returning from the S.F. Bay area on I-5.

I wonder how many Tesla owners gave up on waiting in line for "free", and paid for faster slow AC charging at that RV park?

The CEC has funded single and double public DC sites just north and south of there, at Red Bluff and Orland, but even once they're operational, if you try to use them during a Tesla-Jam like this, you'll probably also have a long wait, behind a line of Tesla's using CHAdeMO adapters.

Apparently, Tesla's charger occupancy reporting system has also been down (worldwide) for several days, exacerbating the capacity shortages.

... I am no longer seeing any information about superchargers on my maps? When I took delivery two weeks ago the tech showed me how to see the number of stalls and real time occupancy. Now every time I click the little bolt icon, the list of superchargers comes up with location data, I can see them on the map but there is no additional data once pressed. I can see the list of amenities (wifi, food etc) but where the data should be regarding number os stalls, nothing, nada...
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/supercharger-live-status.85834/page-21
 
And in other news, gas stations ran out of fuel servicing all the Californians rushing northward to see the total eclipse. But lets make this about Tesla!

If only the whine-ocracy would STFU until the next total eclipse.
 
SageBrush said:
And in other news, gas stations ran out of fuel servicing all the Californians rushing northward to see the total eclipse. But lets make this about Tesla!

If only the whine-ocracy would STFU until the next total eclipse.

+1

Anyway, by 2024, EV's will have a 1,000 mile range, and anyone in the country can get to the zone of totality on a single charge!

In seriousness, though, this does highlight the growing pains of charging infrastructure. If a gas station ran out of fuel yesterday (I'm sure many did), drivers could simply go to the one on the other side of the street. Not so with DC charging (yet).
 
SageBrush said:
And in other news, gas stations ran out of fuel servicing all the Californians rushing northward to see the total eclipse...
It would be news, if what you wrote was true, and that gas shortages had ruined ICEV driver's trips the way all the supercharger fails screwed Tesla drivers.

Corning, the site in the video, is about 500 miles south of the total eclipse, BTW.

Meaning that all those Tesla drivers who waited many hours to charge at Corning, would have faced the same multi-hour wait to charge several more times, before reaching their destination.

I'm sure many just gave up and turned around and drove home, and learned the lesson to never depend on superchargers and their Teslas to make a long trip during peak demand.

It's gonna be one hell of a mess at the superchargers if TSLA sells anywhere close to the number of model 3s it has claimed it will.
 
It's a good thing Tesla is building SCs in Sacramento and Redding, and either adding to or building another one in Mt. Shasta, isn't it? I'd still like to see additional ones in Red Bluff, Williams and/or Dunnigan, but unless traffic increases on I-5 there to the point where a once every 38 years crush of people traveling to a single event becomes common on weekends, I hardly see what happened at Corning on this occasion as a major issue.
 
GRA said:
It's a good thing Tesla is building SCs in Sacramento and Redding, and either adding to or building another one in Mt. Shasta, isn't it?..
Only if you really think accelerating TSLA's slide to insolvency is "good".

It's amazing that not only you, but many of those who actually paid ~$100k to be rationed a Tesla are so ignorant of market realities that they take TSLA's free or free-then-subsidized proprietary charging seriously.

How long would they have expected to have to wait for a Tesla BEV, if the car price was free?

Can you name any reliable distribution mechanism for any valuable commodity, based on "free"?

="GRA"...unless traffic increases on I-5 there to the point where a once every 38 years crush of people traveling to a single event becomes common on weekends, I hardly see what happened at Corning on this occasion as a major issue.
That statement is disingenuous, even by your standards.

You are well aware of the many previous reports of demand overwhelming supercharger supply during other peak demand events.

Your frequent recitations that central planning by the dedicated members of the TSLA politburo will eventually perfect the drivers paradise of free supercharging cannot be taken seriously.
 
edatoakrun said:
GRA said:
It's a good thing Tesla is building SCs in Sacramento and Redding, and either adding to or building another one in Mt. Shasta, isn't it?..
Only if you really think accelerating TSLA's slide to insolvency is "good".

It's amazing that not only you, but many of those who actually paid ~$100k to be rationed a Tesla are so ignorant of market realities that they take TSLA's free or free-then-subsidized proprietary charging seriously.

How long would they have expected to have to wait for a Tesla BEV, if it's price was free?

Can you name any reliable distribution mechanism for any valuable commodity, based on "free"?
As I was one of the earliest to point out that a 'free forever' charging business model was unsustainable if Tesla wanted to transition from a boutique manufacturer to the mass market, I'm not sure why you think you're educating me on this. As to whether or not Tesla survives, the SC network is a valuable property regardless, assuming they can fairly inexpensively be converted to serve other charging standards.

edatoakrun said:
GRA said:
="GRA"...unless traffic increases on I-5 there to the point where a once every 38 years crush of people traveling to a single event becomes common on weekends, I hardly see what happened at Corning on this occasion as a major issue.
That statement is disingenuous, even by your standards.

You are well aware of the many previous reports of demand overwhelming supercharger supply during other peak demand events.

Your frequent recitations that central planning by the dedicated members of the TSLA politburo will eventually perfect the drivers paradise of free supercharging cannot be taken seriously.
I'm well aware of SC backups in areas with lots of Teslas which see frequent weekend travel through them. Nothing on I-5 north of Sacramento suggests to me that the kind of traffic counts leading to this sort of backup will be common in that area any time soon if ever; such congestion won't happen until you get to the Portland - Seattle section. I've driven it enough to know that the number of weekend/weeklong travelers heading to Lassen, Shasta, Ashland etc. or points north, distributing themselves as they go, is not in the same league as the number heading up to Tahoe or Vegas on any holiday weekend, or LA - San Diego, or on I-5 between the Bay Area and LA. See

http://www.dot.ca.gov/trafficops/census/volumes2015/Route5-6.html

For an indication of just how unusual traffic patterns likely were owing to the eclipse, here's a headline from the S.F. Chronicle today:

Jammed: Eclipse crowds may have doubled Wyoming's population
http://www.sfgate.com/news/us/article/Jammed-Eclipse-crowds-may-have-doubled-Wyoming-s-11951325.php

CHEYENNE, Wyo. (AP) — The least populated state in the nation has seen total eclipses before but likely never as many people.
The amount of traffic during Monday's eclipse suggests Wyoming may have temporarily doubled its population of 585,000 — as some predicted it would.
The Wyoming Department of Transportation counted 536,000 more vehicles than usual on Wyoming's roads and highways — a 68 percent increase. . . .

Your antipathy for all things Tesla is seriously affecting how much worth people put in your posts, as they come across as rants rather than attempts to make rational arguments. There are plenty of things Tesla can be criticized for, but some balance is necessary lest you be seen as just another internet crazy with a bug up his ass on whatever particular subject puts you into full frothing mode.
 
"Your antipathy for all things Tesla is seriously affecting how much worth people put in your posts, as they come across as rants rather than attempts to make rational arguments. There are plenty of things Tesla can be criticized for, but some balance is necessary lest you be seen as just another internet crazy with a bug up his ass on whatever particular subject puts you into full frothing mode. "

That says it all. Of course he could just be a stock short who is losing money by the day.
 
shorts gotta short

Any other long-distance EV out there? WITH a nationwide charging system? thought so.

Love the comment Sage.

I just don't get why NO ONE else is doing what Tesla is doing...(crickets).
 
finman100 said:
...I just don't get why NO ONE else is doing what Tesla is doing...
<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My Oscar nominee for "Best Short Documentary": <br>"Tesla: The Car For Rich People Whose Time is Worthless"<br><br>(Mountain View, last Monday)<a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%24TSLA&src=ctag&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">$TSLA</a> <a href="https://t.co/G64GDnN0IL">pic.twitter.com/G64GDnN0IL</a></p>— Mark B. Spiegel (@markbspiegel) <a href="https://twitter.com/markbspiegel/status/919996993245732864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2017</a></blockquote>
Maybe because no other BEV manufacturer is run by idiots?
 
yay, u win! great job. sorry about your loss(es). Keep trying. It's almost working. I'd hate to see who you call an idiot that is doing more than Elon. Really. go ahead. Remember he's landing rockets on barges, setting up clean power storage, and getting us to sustainable transportation. Yeah. that CERTAINLY is an idiot. Thanks for playing. next.
 
Tesla Model 3 doesn’t come with free Supercharger credits like Model S and Model X

Tesla had already confirmed that Model 3 owners wouldn’t have free unlimited access to its Supercharger network like Model S and Model X owners who bought their vehicles using Tesla’s referral program. They said that Model 3 would fall under its pay-per-use Supercharger model, but it wasn’t clear, at least to us, if the Model 3 would come with free “Supercharger credits.”

The answer is no...

Tesla confirmed to Electrek that they are indeed not giving Supercharger Credit with the Model 3.

It actually goes against what Tesla CEO Elon Musk said last year...

https://electrek.co/2016/11/17/elon-musk-tesla-model-3-include-free-long-distance-charging/

Of course, the free Supercharging model was never sustainable in the first place, but it’s clearer than ever now with Model 3, which is expected to hit the streets in higher volume than Model S and Model X...
https://electrek.co/2017/10/17/tesla-model-3-free-supercharger-credits/

edatoakrun said:
OP, Fri Apr 17, 2015 ...It seems to me that the only way it could work (and quite improbably, at that) is if the future purchasers of the "$50k car" (if and when they are sold) would be willing to subsidize the charging costs for those "people who can afford a $100k car" in the present...
And soon we'll see how well this scheme works...
 
For a company that claims to have given free access to all it's patents, it sounds like TSLA might not take very kindly to any threats to its monopoly on DC charge capability for its vehicles...

First Tesla connector added to a public fast-charging station with CCS/CHAdeMO

...We previously reported on GOFAST, a 150 kW fast-charging network coming online in Switzerland. The network is being marketed as ‘Supercharger for all’ due to its capacity aiming to be competitive with Tesla’s Superchargers and its multi-standard support.

At their latest stations in Gunzgen, Switzerland, the company installed their first Tesla Type 2 connector with the automaker’s trademark handle...

It makes it one of the most well equipped charging stations in terms of multi-standard support...

Update: Tesla sent us the following statement about the project:

“Despite repeated discussion and warnings, EVTEC continues to use a damaged and dismantled Tesla DC adapter for a charging service they promote. The misuse of our logo and reference to Supercharging is misleading the public and implies Tesla supports these chargers. In fact, Tesla had no involvement in the development of this charging system and has not tested or authorized its safety for use with Tesla vehicles.”
https://electrek.co/2018/01/22/ev-fast-charging-station-tesla-ccs-chademo/

Related to reports of the odd inability of model 3 (paying DC customers) owners to use a TSLA-supplied adapter?

Conflicting reports, but the majority opinion seems to be:

...The Model 3 currently does not work with Tesla’s CHAdeMO adapter. I’ve got an email out to Tesla about whether this will change anytime soon...
https://electrek.co/2018/01/04/tesla-model-3-your-questions-answered/
 
EVDRIVER said:
edatoakrun said:
SageBrush said:
Small correction: Supercharger access is 20 cents a kWh in California, but it varies by state. I'll pay about 13 cents a kWh in Colorado
Major correction:

Whatever are the teaser rates it has announced, TSLA's only commitment to model 3 buyers is that it will impose whatever fees it wants to for charging at its DC sites.
Tesla will likely never play that game....
Zythryn said:
...You are just too much sometimes.
These are the rates that are charged. Model 3 owners have already been charged, and paid for SuperChargers.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18016&start=1630

Direct link to today's TSLA charge rates:

https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging

30% rate increase for CA and ~70% rate increase for CO, from rates posted above.
 
Good, now it won't be a bunch of locals charging all the time. $.26 in CA is still lower than PGE reality rates.
 
edatoakrun said:
https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging

30% rate increase for CA and ~70% rate increase for CO, from rates posted above.
Fortunately, the page is written in a way now (and from the previous snapshot) so that it doesn't require any roundtrips with the server to retrieve the pricing. The prices are all visible in the source and the Javascript just updates the visible text based upon the selection in the <SELECT>.

Here's a snapshot from Feb 1, 2018: https://web.archive.org/web/20180201045829/https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging. Fortunately someone did their duty (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9553) by submitting the URL to http://archive.org/web/.

Yeah, 26 cents/kWh is actually still pretty decent for CA in PG&E-land. For those on E-1, tier 2 is 27.748 cents/kWh and tier 3 is over 40 cents/kWh: https://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf. I've posted about my baseline and tiers at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=471487#p471487 (but the rates there are old now since PG&E has raised them).
 
From: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/83nw2q/changes_for_supercharging_rates/

0r9mk89sz5l01.png
 
EVDRIVER said:
Good, now it won't be a bunch of locals charging all the time. $.26 in CA is still lower than PGE reality rates.
You're wrong, of course.

I've never paid PG&E more than 18 cents a kWh (off-peak) myself.

But more to the point, this was just the first of what will undoubtedly be many future rate hikes by TSLA.

Courtesy of the TSLA unregulated monopoly electricity supplier, ironically known as superchargers...

I wonder how long it will be before model 3 owners will begin to demand to be free to use public DC charge sites, and how tenaciously will TSLA fight emancipation?
 
cwerdna said:
edatoakrun said:
https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging

30% rate increase for CA and ~70% rate increase for CO, from rates posted above.
Fortunately, the page is written in a way now (and from the previous snapshot) so that it doesn't require any roundtrips with the server to retrieve the pricing. The prices are all visible in the source and the Javascript just updates the visible text based upon the selection in the <SELECT>.

Here's a snapshot from Feb 1, 2018: https://web.archive.org/web/20180201045829/https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging. Fortunately someone did their duty (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9553) by submitting the URL to http://archive.org/web/.

Yeah, 26 cents/kWh is actually still pretty decent for CA in PG&E-land. For those on E-1, tier 2 is 27.748 cents/kWh and tier 3 is over 40 cents/kWh: https://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf. I've posted about my baseline and tiers at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=471487#p471487 (but the rates there are old now since PG&E has raised them).

Tier 1, if you live in studio apartment perhaps with no EV:)
 
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