Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

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vijayl said:
Valdemar said:
vijayl said:
Some of you might have seen my post on SFBayLeafs
I've a 2011 Leaf with 91K (8bars) and got an offer of 50-50 to replace the battery pack. This will put me in the out of pocket of close to 4K..

Replacement pack shouldn't be more than 6k installed considering the 1k old pack core. Why 4k? They don't want to pick up the labor to install it?
I'll know the actual quote tomorrow, when I go to the dealer. Nissan Rep told me it could be ~3.2k + Tax.

I'm assuming the packs are 2017 packs, correct?

Should be 2017 as they don't stock them due to degradation, or at least this was the information some time back. You can and should shop around other dealerships if your dealer wants more than 6k, I know people had it done for $5,800 all-inclusive.
 
Valdemar said:
vijayl said:
Valdemar said:
Replacement pack shouldn't be more than 6k installed considering the 1k old pack core. Why 4k? They don't want to pick up the labor to install it?
I'll know the actual quote tomorrow, when I go to the dealer. Nissan Rep told me it could be ~3.2k + Tax.

I'm assuming the packs are 2017 packs, correct?

Should be 2017 as they don't stock them due to degradation, or at least this was the information some time back. You can and should shop around other dealerships if your dealer wants more than 6k, I know people had it done for $5,800 all-inclusive.
Thank you! I'll negotiate and will keep you all posted..
 
vijayl said:
Some of you might have seen my post on SFBayLeafs
I've a 2011 Leaf with 91K (8bars) and got an offer of 50-50 to replace the battery pack. This will put me in the out of pocket of close to 4K.. When I asked if I can get 80-20, rep said it is take it or leave it offer..

I didn't go for Battery check from 3rd year. Car hasn't gone to a dealer after 2nd free battery check and the Service Bulletin.
So everything against me -
  • ~2 years after the warranty
    No Servicing Doen after 2nd year
    30+K more miles than the 60K warranty
Others who got 60-40 or better, what is your mileage on your Leaf?

Should I try going with other dealers or asking for escalation?

So you asked for a deal from the dealership?

I would have bypassed them going straight to corporate. sounds like some profiteering to me?
 
vijayl said:
Valdemar said:
vijayl said:
Some of you might have seen my post on SFBayLeafs
I've a 2011 Leaf with 91K (8bars) and got an offer of 50-50 to replace the battery pack. This will put me in the out of pocket of close to 4K..

Replacement pack shouldn't be more than 6k installed considering the 1k old pack core. Why 4k? They don't want to pick up the labor to install it?
I'll know the actual quote tomorrow, when I go to the dealer. Nissan Rep told me it could be ~3.2k + Tax.

I'm assuming the packs are 2017 packs, correct?

if that is the case; if would be $3.2k MINUS core exchange + tax. That would be true 50%.

as far as packs? It would be a fairly recent build. still 24 kwh
 
vijayl said:
I'm assuming the packs are 2017 packs, correct?
I think NIssan still sold 24 kWh models in 2016 so you should figure on either a 2015 or 2016 battery build date.

The quoted price sounds like you are being charged 50% of the pack msrp and 100% of the labor.
 
vijayl said:
I didn't go for Battery check from 3rd year. Car hasn't gone to a dealer after 2nd free battery check and the Service Bulletin.
So everything against me -
  • ~2 years after the warranty
    No Servicing Doen after 2nd year
    30+K more miles than the 60K warranty
I'll be curious as to how things work out for you. I haven't bothered to take our LEAF in for the last three or so annual battery checks. It's somewhat of a hassle to take it to the nearest dealer down the mountain because of capacity loss, lousy regen, and the need for charging to return home, and those battery checks seem pretty useless. By the time we lose the 9th bar (we've already lost the top three bars), it'll have been probably 7+ years from the purchase date. Our LEAF is getting less use because of its very limited range, which has slowed the rate of capacity loss.

In any case, we won't be willing to pay $4K (or more) for another 24 kWh battery. Unless Nissan is willing to offer a more attractive price, or perhaps an upgrade to a larger battery, our LEAF will remain a cripple, our "beater" car. It's too bad, because it's otherwise a decent little car. Meanwhile, our new(er) car purchases are Teslas...
 
SageBrush said:
I think NIssan still sold 24 kWh models in 2016 so you should figure on either a 2015 or 2016 battery build date.
Others who have posted a build date on recently replaced 24 kwh batteries have noted that they are dated 2017.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
vijayl said:
Some of you might have seen my post on SFBayLeafs
I've a 2011 Leaf with 91K (8bars) and got an offer of 50-50 to replace the battery pack. This will put me in the out of pocket of close to 4K.. When I asked if I can get 80-20, rep said it is take it or leave it offer..

I didn't go for Battery check from 3rd year. Car hasn't gone to a dealer after 2nd free battery check and the Service Bulletin.
So everything against me -
  • ~2 years after the warranty
    No Servicing Doen after 2nd year
    30+K more miles than the 60K warranty
Others who got 60-40 or better, what is your mileage on your Leaf?

Should I try going with other dealers or asking for escalation?

So you asked for a deal from the dealership?

I would have bypassed them going straight to corporate. sounds like some profiteering to me?
I didn't even negotiate anything with the dealer. I opened a support case with Nissan and after 2 weeks, they came back with 50-50 offer.
 
Today I went to the dealer and my papers were ready.
  • There was a contract that I needed to sign, which I did. It only had some T&C
  • There was a Dealer Service quote that I signed
  • There was Credit Card Payment sheet that I needed to fill. The cashier took a copy of my DL, wrote down CC info. They will charge my CC if I end up not going back and install the battery pack.
  • The final price was $2700 includes everything. There was no breakdown of Parts/labor. When I asked, the guy said my service rep may be able to help when he is back tomorrow.

When I asked about the ETA for the pack to arrive, the guy checked with the Service Manager and said 5-6 weeks, but typically arrives sooner than that.
Hope to drive my Leaf for another 100K miles.
 
Dooglas said:
SageBrush said:
I think NIssan still sold 24 kWh models in 2016 so you should figure on either a 2015 or 2016 battery build date.
Others who have posted a build date on recently replaced 24 kwh batteries have noted that they are dated 2017.
Thanks for the informative post.

If correct it casts doubt on my presumption that battery production stops when the last model using that size pack is discontinued.
 
I had my pack replaced back in May under warranty. I was told that the pack had to come from Japan. It took about three weeks. If someone can tell me how to figure out when it was made, I will look.
 
SageBrush said:
If correct it casts doubt on my presumption that battery production stops when the last model using that size pack is discontinued.

The last builds of the 24kWh battery will happen when sub assembly parts are no longer available. I would suspect that the final builds of this part will happen in the next 12 months.
 
OrientExpress said:
SageBrush said:
If correct it casts doubt on my presumption that battery production stops when the last model using that size pack is discontinued.

The last builds of the 24kWh battery will happen when sub assembly parts are no longer available. I would suspect that the final builds of this part will happen in the next 12 months.
That makes sense, although it kind of suggests over-stocking of sub-assembly parts in this case. Or perhaps Nissan is actually planning ahead for lots of in-warranty replacements.

However, it still means that the lion's share of in-warranty pack replacements that occur towards the end of the warranty period are going to be with packs that have sat in storage for 5+ years. Out of warranty replacements will be with even older packs. Who wants to pay thousands for that pack when it presumably carries no degradation warranty ? This is why I think the people who are planning on 5-8 years with the original pack and then 5-8 years with another replacement pack are not being realistic.

This entire notion really only has legs if Nissan was willing to offer retrofit replacement packs meant for future models. So far, every reason to think that will not come to pass.
 
SageBrush said:
Or perhaps Nissan is actually planning ahead for lots of in-warranty replacements.
I think there is little chance that is what is going on. I suspect the 30 kWh battery is actually *cheaper* to manufacture than the 24 kWh battery. I believe OrientExpress has previously indicated that Nissan was on the hook to purchase a certain amount of cathode material for the 24 kWh battery. It's possible that they still have not fulfilled that requirement and that they cannot afford to NOT take the material because it would mean paying for nothing.
 
RegGuheert said:
SageBrush said:
Or perhaps Nissan is actually planning ahead for lots of in-warranty replacements.
I think there is little chance that is what is going on. I suspect the 30 kWh battery is actually *cheaper* to manufacture than the 24 kWh battery. I believe OrientExpress has previously indicated that Nissan was on the hook to purchase a certain amount of cathode material for the 24 kWh battery. It's possible that they still have not fulfilled that requirement and that they cannot afford to NOT take the material because it would mean paying for nothing.
Is the cathode material different than that used in the 30/40 kWh packs ?
 
SageBrush said:
Is the cathode material different than that used in the 30/40 kWh packs ?
Yes. At least it *was*. The original 24kWh pack used LMO (IIRC) material for the cathode and the 30kWh and 40kWh packs are made using NMC.

It's possible that they have re-engineered the 24-kWh packs to use NMC, but I seriously doubt it.
 
24kWh pack end of production is inevitable. What more interesting is if they will allow access to the full capacity once they start using "larger" batteries for replacements. I suspect not.
 
Valdemar said:
24kWh pack end of production is inevitable. What more interesting is if they will allow access to the full capacity once they start using "larger" batteries for replacements. I suspect not.
Why wouldn't they? They could charge for it...
 
RegGuheert said:
Valdemar said:
24kWh pack end of production is inevitable. What more interesting is if they will allow access to the full capacity once they start using "larger" batteries for replacements. I suspect not.
Why wouldn't they? They could charge for it...

There may not be a business case for this considering the costs involved.
 
Valdemar said:
There may not be a business case for this considering the costs involved.
It seems the engineering is already done. Perhaps I am missing something, but I would think the cars asks the BMS to provide the information that it needs to do its job. Hopefully the car doesn't assume anything about the battery size.
 
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