LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

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edatoakrun said:
evnow, DaveinOlyWA, OrientExpress, SageBrush:

Not only are all your recent comments off-topic, you are bickering over long-term battery degradation of Gen one LEAFs, which it appears none of you (not having owned and driven a single LEAF since the introduction) are really informed to discuss, based on your own experience.
LOL. You do like flaunting your ignorance. Look at the "delivery date" of our first Leafs.

I suppose that's why the Gen one LEAF is the worlds best-selling BEV...?

Well, that is in spite of the poor battery of Leafs - not because of that. Its like how many cars/trucks GM sells, in spite of mediocre quality.

At least in the US, Leafs are selling for exactly the same reason GM/Ford sell cars. Leases are cheap. Infact you can go back and look at Leaf sales figures when the leases aren't highly subsidized.

I expect the Gen two LEAF to be the world's best-selling BEV, in 2018.

We'll come back to this at the end of 2018 ;)

SageBrush said:
...Nissan gives EVs a horrible name.

Horrible is an extreme term - but we've to accept Nissan's battery degradation didn't do EVs any favor. I look forward to tell-all books about how the Leaf 1 battery was accepted to be produced. For sure Nissan knew they will degrade in hot climate - yet Arizona was one of the first 5 states they were sold in. Mind boggling.
 
evnow said:
edatoakrun said:
evnow, DaveinOlyWA, OrientExpress, SageBrush:

Not only are all your recent comments off-topic, you are bickering over long-term battery degradation of Gen one LEAFs, which it appears none of you (not having owned and driven a single LEAF since the introduction) are really informed to discuss, based on your own experience.
LOL. You do like flaunting your ignorance. Look at the "delivery date" of our first Leafs...
You're wrong, and STILL off-topic, BTW.

You, DaveinOlyWA, and (maybe) OrientExpress, seem to have misunderstood my comment you quoted above.

I know your delivery dates from your signatures, and also that you replaced your 2011 LEAFs years ago.

Since all of you (AFAIK) have not driven your 2011 LEAFs for many years, you can not observe their present battery capacity, and the Implausibility of current LBC data, as anyone who still has their 2011 with the OE battery is able to.

My OE pack performance, for example:

It was looking like my LEAF's OE battery's streak of over-100-mile trips using only capacity above the VLBW was probably over, but I picked up # thirty-three last week.

kWh use reports, ranked from LEAST to most credible:

8/29/17

LBC report: 12 kWh used, 104.2 miles (accurate odometer) 8.7 m/kWh!!! Why oh why does anyone take LBC data seriously?

8.1 m/kWh shown on the Nav screen.

Carwings/Nissan connect: 12.9 kWh 101.7 miles (~2.5% under-report) 7.9 m/kWh (identical to dash m/kWh display) .

Actual: 14.4 kWh (est.) 104.2 miles (odometer) ~7.3 m/kWh (est.)

Not too bad, for a LEAF pack with ~55k miles, after seven North Valley hot Summers, and due to lose capacity bar # nine, any day now.

Vacaville to Orland CA, and I didn't even ever see the VLBW, arriving with the LBC reporting 2.2 kWh remaining on arrival, so I expect I would probably have seen the turtle after another 2.2 to 2.4 actual kWh use, a few miles past 120, had I continued on at about the same speed....
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7022&start=870

="evnow"

(edatoakrun)

I expect the Gen two LEAF to be the world's best-selling BEV, in 2018.
...We'll come back to this at the end of 2018...
You finally said something on-topic!

That makes my day...
 
ooohhhh, "thats" what you meant! Clear as mud.

oh well, no matter. I agree that the LEAF will be popular mostly because its the closest to main stream pricing. As far as how the pack fares? We shall see! With a warranty in place, its not a major concern for me.
 
Another spy shot has surfaced. Note the larger cargo area and compact nose, allowing for a much larger interior generally.










f5b4c7ae92561f984fe93082c24e39bc--the-facts-antique-cars.jpg
 
Here's the one day left video, more pro-pilot. Tonight's the night!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFYS-ZmOP84
 
jhm614 said:
Here's the one day left video, more pro-pilot. Tonight's the night!

The fact that the final 2 videos of the countdown seem to focus on ProPilot is disheartening. I had a feeling that Nissan would be pushing ProPilot as the feature that sets it apart from the Bolt. Which implies that they cannot touch it on range.

Out of curiosity, how many plan on watching the presentation live? I probably will. The timing works out well - the kids' bedtime is 8, and the presentation starts at 8:30 EDT.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
jhm614 said:
Here's the one day left video, more pro-pilot. Tonight's the night!

The fact that the final 2 videos of the countdown seem to focus on ProPilot is disheartening. I had a feeling that Nissan would be pushing ProPilot as the feature that sets it apart from the Bolt. Which implies that they cannot touch it on range.

Out of curiosity, how many plan on watching the presentation live? I probably will. The timing works out well - the kids' bedtime is 8, and the presentation starts at 8:30 EDT.

Most likely I will. I am very much looking forward to seeing more info about the car and roll out plans :D
 
lorenfb said:
Really surprised you bought a used Leaf, especially after joining this forum and doing "due diligence" prior to your
purchase, e.g. even utilizing LeafSpy. Implicit in your posts is that you view your Leaf, i.e. > 3yrs old, purchased
for less than $8K, with near new battery capacity (59 - 61 Ahrs), and no necessary repairs, as a marginal purchase.
Sorry for your naivety and misfortune.

So far, no misfortune at all -- quite the contrary. We love our LEAF and I remain reasonably confident that I will not have future regrets.
I have not been paraphrasing my ownership when I criticize LEAF battery technology and the corporation. However, consider the particulars of my positive experience:

I learned enough to buy an usually healthy battery -- without doubt an outlier in both battery and owner.
I baby the car
It has never lived in a warm, let alone hot, environment
We use it for in-town errands
I paid $6,300 before shipping and taxes, after tax credit
I came to the table realizing that Nissan Corporate would likely not support me in the future
I will not suffer financial hardship if the car goes to the junk-yard today

In short, I recognize that the car is hobbled but it performs admirably the little I ask of it for a great price. But my anecdote is so far away from average or even 2 SD that it is irrelevant to the discussion. I frame my comments thinking of the group that bought the car for $25-$30k for daily duties up to 75 miles per charge.

And LEAF the car aside, Nissan Corporate stinks in their EV customer support (not including the last 12 months in the run up to the LEAF2 unveiling.)
 
SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
Really surprised you bought a used Leaf, especially after joining this forum and doing "due diligence" prior to your
purchase, e.g. even utilizing LeafSpy. Implicit in your posts is that you view your Leaf, i.e. > 3yrs old, purchased
for less than $8K, with near new battery capacity (59 - 61 Ahrs), and no necessary repairs, as a marginal purchase.
Sorry for your naivety and misfortune.

So far, no misfortune at all -- quite the contrary. We love our LEAF and I remain reasonably confident that I will not have future regrets.
I have not been paraphrasing my ownership when I criticize LEAF battery technology and the corporation. However, consider the particulars of my positive experience:

I learned enough to buy an usually healthy battery -- without doubt an outlier in both battery and owner.
I baby the car
It has never lived in a warm, let alone hot, environment
We use it for in-town errands
I paid $6,300 before shipping and taxes, after tax credit
I came to the table realizing that Nissan Corporate would likely not support me in the future
I will not suffer financial hardship if the car goes to the junk-yard today

In short, I recognize that the car is hobbled but it performs admirably the little I ask of it for a great price. But my anecdote is so far away from average or even 2 SD that it is irrelevant to the discussion. I frame my comments thinking of the group that bought the car for $25-$30k for daily duties up to 75 miles per charge.

And LEAF the car aside, Nissan Corporate stinks in their EV customer support

Yes, we can all agree that Nissan should have done an extensive evaluation on the early Leaf's battery chemistry
before production and have been more acqueiscent to owners' range degradation issues. Other than the Leaf's
battery, i.e. notwithstanding any product with a battery, most owners would agree that the Leaf's reliability
has been excellent.

You'll have many years of enjoyable service, given that your Leaf is in a better climate than my '13 now with 53K miles,
12 bars, and 51 Ahrs. Mine has received no special care; daily charge to 100%, 2-3 QCs per week - max 10 min,
battery temp never exceeds 35 deg C, and max discharge to 18 Ahrs.
 
SageBrush said:
...So far, no misfortune at all..
Your misfortune was in driving other vehicles for the six years you could have been driving a LEAF.

Having myself (with benefit of hindsight) made the correct decision in 2011, and been more fortunate than you in owning and driving a Gen one LEAF since then, It's likely my next BEV will be a LEAF, Gen one or two, depending on what we find out in the next few weeks about the two.
 
I was thinking of cars as tools ..

I have expensive, excellent quality Hitachi power tools for demanding work outside and garbage tools I bought at Harbor Freight for the non-demanding chores inside the house. Both are excellent value so long as I don't try to use the garbage tools outside.

And in a somewhat similar vein, I bought an expensive EVSE from Clipper Creek. I figured the extra money was worth quality components for safety and long term use, and because CC has a sterling reputation in customer support. The other day I found a little plastic pin stuck in my EVSE handle. I didn't know if it came from the CC, one of my cars, or another EVSE. You can bet I didn't call Nissan. I called CC and received phenomenal support even after it was clear that the pin did not originate from their product.
 
lorenfb said:
SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
Really surprised you bought a used Leaf, especially after joining this forum and doing "due diligence" prior to your
purchase, e.g. even utilizing LeafSpy. Implicit in your posts is that you view your Leaf, i.e. > 3yrs old, purchased
for less than $8K, with near new battery capacity (59 - 61 Ahrs), and no necessary repairs, as a marginal purchase.
Sorry for your naivety and misfortune.

So far, no misfortune at all -- quite the contrary. We love our LEAF and I remain reasonably confident that I will not have future regrets.
I have not been paraphrasing my ownership when I criticize LEAF battery technology and the corporation. However, consider the particulars of my positive experience:

I learned enough to buy an usually healthy battery -- without doubt an outlier in both battery and owner.
I baby the car
It has never lived in a warm, let alone hot, environment
We use it for in-town errands
I paid $6,300 before shipping and taxes, after tax credit
I came to the table realizing that Nissan Corporate would likely not support me in the future
I will not suffer financial hardship if the car goes to the junk-yard today

In short, I recognize that the car is hobbled but it performs admirably the little I ask of it for a great price. But my anecdote is so far away from average or even 2 SD that it is irrelevant to the discussion. I frame my comments thinking of the group that bought the car for $25-$30k for daily duties up to 75 miles per charge.

And LEAF the car aside, Nissan Corporate stinks in their EV customer support

Yes, we can all agree that Nissan should have done an extensive evaluation on the early Leaf's battery chemistry
before production and have been more acqueiscent to owners' range degradation issues. Other than the Leaf's
battery, i.e. notwithstanding any product with a battery, most owners would agree that the Leaf's reliability
has been excellent.

You'll have many years of enjoyable service, given that your Leaf is in a better climate than my '13 now with 53K miles,
12 bars, and 51 Ahrs. Mine has received no special care; daily charge to 100%, 2-3 QCs per week - max 10 min,
battery temp never exceeds 35 deg C, and max discharge to 18 Ahrs.


I agree the car has been reliable but they did do extensive testing on the pack according to them, I'm confident they knew about the degradation issues if they did what they said they did in high temp testing. If they use the same chemistry and have the same degradation issues it will hurt them because it will be used to sell against them in competing new models, they are not the only game in town anymore.
 
SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
Sorry for your naivety and misfortune.

So far, no misfortune at all -- quite the contrary. We love our LEAF and I remain reasonably confident that I will not have future regrets
+1
Same here..
I knew what I was getting into when I bought my Leaf used, and I'm still very happy with my "naivety and misfortune."
:lol: :lol: :lol:

desiv
 
Perhaps because I am not a Nissan victim, I don't really question when Nissan knew the extent of the problems their battery tech would encounter in higher temperature climates. My beef is their response and refusal to accept responsibility; and their miserable treatment of their early adopters. Anybody not aware of the behaviour should read @Drees for a representative case history.

I know that Nissan is much better these last 12 months or so but I frankly chalk that up to a cynical positioning in advance of the LEAF2 debut. And even now Nissan Corporate is nothing to appreciate. Another thread here this week has a post from a fellow who is 5 months past warranty in a car with SEVEN bars. It is no great leaf of faith to imagine that the car lost over 65% of capacity in under 5 years yet Nissan in its generosity still charged $2000 for a pack replacement.
 
SageBrush said:
Perhaps because I am not a Nissan victim, I don't really question when Nissan knew the extent of the problems their battery tech would encounter in higher temperature climates. My beef is their response and refusal to accept responsibility; and their miserable treatment of their early adopters. Anybody not aware of the behaviour should read @Drees for a representative case history.

I know that Nissan is much better these last 12 months or so but I frankly chalk that up to a cynical positioning in advance of the LEAF2 debut. And even now Nissan Corporate is nothing to appreciate. Another thread here this week has a post from a fellow who is 5 months past warranty in a car with SEVEN bars. It is no great leaf of faith to imagine that the car lost over 65% of capacity in under 5 years yet Nissan in its generosity still charged $2000 for a pack replacement.

Would Tesla have replaced a defective battery for free on its ninth year?
 
internalaudit said:
SageBrush said:
Perhaps because I am not a Nissan victim, I don't really question when Nissan knew the extent of the problems their battery tech would encounter in higher temperature climates. My beef is their response and refusal to accept responsibility; and their miserable treatment of their early adopters. Anybody not aware of the behaviour should read @Drees for a representative case history.

I know that Nissan is much better these last 12 months or so but I frankly chalk that up to a cynical positioning in advance of the LEAF2 debut. And even now Nissan Corporate is nothing to appreciate. Another thread here this week has a post from a fellow who is 5 months past warranty in a car with SEVEN bars. It is no great leaf of faith to imagine that the car lost over 65% of capacity in under 5 years yet Nissan in its generosity still charged $2000 for a pack replacement.

Would Tesla have replaced a defective battery for free on its ninth year?
You can read the Tesla warranty.

A better question: would Tesla have called a battery a couple of years old already showing 20+ percent degradation non-defective ?
Of course not. It falls way outside any reasonable consumer expectation ... respectfully excluding a few people on this forum.
 
SageBrush said:
internalaudit said:
SageBrush said:
Perhaps because I am not a Nissan victim, I don't really question when Nissan knew the extent of the problems their battery tech would encounter in higher temperature climates. My beef is their response and refusal to accept responsibility; and their miserable treatment of their early adopters. Anybody not aware of the behaviour should read @Drees for a representative case history.

I know that Nissan is much better these last 12 months or so but I frankly chalk that up to a cynical positioning in advance of the LEAF2 debut. And even now Nissan Corporate is nothing to appreciate. Another thread here this week has a post from a fellow who is 5 months past warranty in a car with SEVEN bars. It is no great leaf of faith to imagine that the car lost over 65% of capacity in under 5 years yet Nissan in its generosity still charged $2000 for a pack replacement.

Would Tesla have replaced a defective battery for free on its ninth year?
You can read the Tesla warranty.

A better question: would Tesla have called a battery a couple of years old already showing 20+ percent degradation non-defective ?
Of course not. It falls way outside any reasonable consumer expectation ... respectfully excluding a few people on this forum.

Warranty doesn't include capacity, I believe and is good for eight years. Unless you are telling me it has changed with your link.

$2k is a pittance compared to door handles at $1,600 a piece.

If Nissan charged $5k or more for the battery replacement, I'd understand the hate but $2k is a fraction of the entire battery price, isn't it?

I would think Nissan's margins are slimmer compared to Tesla's on the S and X? I'm just throwing a conjecture here.
 
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