Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

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Still no confirmation for this report?

edatoakrun said:
peter said:
Just got off of talking to Nissan support after opening an out of warranty battery replacement assistance case for my 2011 Leaf two weeks ago.

He says the official Nissan word is that all out of warranty battery assistance has been ended since last week. Fini.
Anyone have an actual experience to report, either of continuing their own process toward a discounted pack exchange, or a refusal from Nissan to do so, since the single post above from (wednesday) morning?
It seems to me to be very odd that Nissan would do something this stupid, and it also seems odd that we haven't heard from anyone else anywhere on the forum (?) of a similar experience, given the number of positive assistance reports trickling in recently.
 
A few days ago another person called in and was told the same, that the assistance program has ended. You can of course call in yourself if you would like to hear the same. Call every day if you want.
 
SageBrush said:
A few days ago another person called in and was told the same, that the assistance program has ended. You can of course call in yourself if you would like to hear the same. Call every day if you want.
Which person was that?
 
sandeen said:
peter said:
Just got off of talking to Nissan support after opening an out of warranty battery replacement assistance case for my 2011 Leaf two weeks ago.

He says the official Nissan word is that all out of warranty battery assistance has been ended since last week. Fini.

Oh, man. :( My 2012 is on the edge, but I was counting on / hoping for some assistance if I didn't make it in time. What a bummer. You were talking to the NO GAS EV folks I assume?

Yes.
 
As an owner of a 2011 LEAF with 9/12 capacity bars, I can hope that Nissan will replace this out-of-warranty battery replacement program with something better.

Namely, an opportunity to upgrade to a larger battery, preferably 40 kWh, at an affordable price. For many of us, the original 24 kWh battery was marginal to begin with, but we believed in EVs as the future of automotive transportation, we were grateful for Nissan's efforts to pioneer this market, and we were willing to go out of our way to drive electric. More than six years later, though, after considerable improvements in battery technology, it seems silly to me to simply stick another 24 kWh battery in our car.

Perhaps Nissan's preferred option might be for us to simply replace our 2011 LEAF with a new(er) one, but from the perspective of the consumer, why? We normally prefer to hold onto our vehicles for longer than six years, and the average age of the vehicles on US roads is over eleven years. It is unacceptable for there to be such drastic degradation in the utility of an "affordable" vehicle after only six years where the "fix" involves spending $5,000 - $6,000. This largely explains the terrible depreciation in used LEAF values.

Although we've become Tesla customers, we'd like to keep our 2011 LEAF on the road, and we'd like to feel that we can consider buying another Nissan EV when the time finally comes to retire our older LEAF.
 
abasile said:
As an owner of a 2011 LEAF with 9/12 capacity bars, I can hope that Nissan will replace this out-of-warranty battery replacement program with something better.

Namely, an opportunity to upgrade to a larger battery, preferably 40 kWh, at an affordable price. For many of us, the original 24 kWh battery was marginal to begin with, but we believed in EVs as the future of automotive transportation, we were grateful for Nissan's efforts to pioneer this market, and we were willing to go out of our way to drive electric. More than six years later, though, after considerable improvements in battery technology, it seems silly to me to simply stick another 24 kWh battery in our car.

Perhaps Nissan's preferred option might be for us to simply replace our 2011 LEAF with a new(er) one, but from the perspective of the consumer, why? We normally prefer to hold onto our vehicles for longer than six years, and the average age of the vehicles on US roads is over eleven years. It is unacceptable for there to be such drastic degradation in the utility of an "affordable" vehicle after only six years where the "fix" involves spending $5,000 - $6,000. This largely explains the terrible depreciation in used LEAF values.

Although we've become Tesla customers, we'd like to keep our 2011 LEAF on the road, and we'd like to feel that we can consider buying another Nissan EV when the time finally comes to retire our older LEAF.

so the average discount ran say $3500 to $4000. What if they offered that much off a 2018 LEAF?
 
So, I just called Nissan, and asked explicitly, and they confirmed:

  • Yes, it was a temporary program
  • The program is no longer active
  • There will now be no consideration whatsoever for out of warranty cars
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
so the average discount ran say $3500 to $4000. What if they offered that much off a 2018 LEAF?
Ok, let's suppose a 2018 LEAF with QC is about $32K, give or take.

A $4K discount would bring that down to $28K. Then subtract $10K in federal and California incentives (for now), so $18K. Add back about 10% for tax and license, bringing it to roughly $20K net.

According to kbb.com, our LEAF might fetch roughly $5500 if sold to a private party. To be conservative, let's call it $5000 since the battery is at only 9/12 capacity bars and out of warranty (no, that's not an offer to sell for that price!).

That would bring the net cost of replacing our 2011 LEAF with a 2018 LEAF down to about $15K (as opposed to $19K without your proposed $4K "goodwill" discount).

That's certainly more attractive, and might be a tempting offer. The problem, though, is that it's $15K that we weren't planning on spending at this stage since our current LEAF is otherwise almost perfectly functional. (Isn't that supposed to be one of the selling points of EVs??)

I guess the other question is, would it be better to spend $6K for a new 40 kWh battery for our current LEAF, or $15K net (after your proposed $4K discount) to swap into a 2018 LEAF? Spending the $15K would represent a better value, I'll admit, if we felt okay with spending more. It would be ideal if Nissan were to offer both of these options to its early adopters.

Of course, there are no such offers on the table right now. Today, buying a new LEAF at full price is a very questionable proposition given the availability of the longer-range Bolt and the upcoming Model 3, not to mention Nissan's poor record on battery pack longevity.
 
sandeen said:
So, I just called Nissan, and asked explicitly, and they confirmed:

  • Yes, it was a temporary program
  • The program is no longer active
  • There will now be no consideration whatsoever for out of warranty cars
As you might guess, I'm rather disappointed with this news. There is NO WAY I am spending $6500 for a new battery on a car that's worth $5000. If anyone at Nissan is reading this stuff, you're not just in danger of losing me as a customer, you're also losing ALL of the people that I influence. I have directly influenced more than ten people to purchase EVs in a Tri-City area with less than 200,000 people. I continue to advocate for EVs and have been involved in the installation of several charging stations locally (and soon regionally). At this point I cannot in good conscience recommend that anyone purchase a Nissan vehicle.
 
Yeah, the capriciousness of this is really unfortunate. True, they don't owe anyone anything out of warranty. But with so many 2011/2012 cars having trouble, opening and then closing this program before some of the 2012s even went out of warranty seems really arbitary.
(And just a hunch, but I'm 99% sure they would not have considered early replacement for 9-bar cars still within the warranty period - though now I wish I had asked),
 
sandeen said:
SageBrush said:
A few days ago another person called in and was told the same, that the assistance program has ended. You can of course call in yourself if you would like to hear the same. Call every day if you want.
Which person was that?
I forgot his name -- he posted a new thread offering up his website to aggregate LeafSpy data.

His post is no better or worse than just calling yourself.
 
Just as a follow up I did get the car back on Saturday, and replacement was done at no cost to me. Battery has definitely been replaced. Dealership had initially told me they fully charged it with QC, so when I get in the car as it was booting it only showed 67 miles. I realized after it booted and only had 7 bars that the QC stops at 80%. Fully charged it at the house Sunday and car showed 94 miles. Got about 100 miles on it so far this week and all looks well. Battery stats according to LEAFDD are 66.13ahr, HX: 99.79, and car has 57,078 miles. Paperwork didn't have a part number for the battery or anything but I can only guess it is the latest chemistry per the settlement awhile back. Telematics are also working great so far. Is awesome to be able to use the Nissan app again.
 
I have Nissan Leaf 2012 out of warranty,4th bar dropped in 5 years and 5 months, 37000 miles. I called Nissan Leaf Call Center 877-664-2738 and talked to Brian. He asked for the battery test for opening case. It cost $78. I did. Brian told me he will call back on September 19th at 9 am. Hi didn't call. I leave a message and Brian called me back on October 2nd at 9 am. He contacted my dealer and gave me the same -1/3 of the battery replacement cost. Lost my time and $78 for test because they did nothing. Brian even was not able to give me the clear answer for the final cost. He said I have to ask my dealer.I am still not agree to pay for this because 4th bar dropped after 5 years. They did not replace the battery before 4th bar dropping but this bar dropped after 5 years and 5 months. Why they did not replace the battery before 4th bar dropping under 5 years wattanty?
 
They offered to pay 1/3 of the replacement? That's more than the "nothing" most people have heard lately. That's actually somewhat encouraging.
(They didn't replace it before the 4th bar because they have to draw the line somewhere, and those were the terms of the original warranty).

If they paid 1/3, your cost would be roughly $4k for a $6k job. When I spoke with them, they also mentioned a free financing program for a new battery, which might help.
 
sandeen said:
They offered to pay 1/3 of the replacement? That's more than the "nothing" most people have heard lately.
"nothing" because my dealer did it for me before I call them-nothing new.
 
nbeker said:
sandeen said:
They offered to pay 1/3 of the replacement? That's more than the "nothing" most people have heard lately.
"nothing" because my dealer did it for me before I call them-nothing new.

Maybe. It depends on whether the Nissan discount of ~ $2000 is in addition to the dealer discount. In your shoes I would call the dealer and say something like "Great news! Nissan is going to pay $2000 of the bill we talked about earlier. So what will my final bill be ?"
 
I was disappointed because we bought this car as used car a couple of years ago and Nissan dealer did not explain to us that Nissan Leaf battery will have degradation early. They did not care of our satisfaction for their services. This car has only 37000 and we have to buy a new battery for more than $5000 after using this car for two years. They gave us 1/3 for replacement and because we were not agree, they say we have to pay full cost now. They lied when they sold this almost dead car to us because they did not say we need pay $5000+ after two years of using this car with no metter how many miles we will drive...Nissan did not care for customers I will never buy another Nissan.
 
^^^
Unfortunately, sometimes salespeople don't know or they're just trying to make a sale.

There's plenty of info here on MNL and it is known that Leafs built before 4/2013 have crappy batteries in terms of degradation. We have no idea how many bars it had when you bought it and whether you'd get to 8 bars in time, which is mainly influenced by climate.

If you had monitored battery status via Leaf Spy, you could've asked around and possibly taken actions to speed up degradation to make it hit 8 bars before capacity warranty expiration (e.g. leave at 100% charge in the heat, ship car to Phoenix, etc.)
nbeker said:
I have Nissan Leaf 2012 out of warranty,4th bar dropped in 5 years and 5 months, 37000 miles.
...
Why they did not replace the battery before 4th bar dropping under 5 years wattanty?
Because the terms of the capacity warranty at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13192 state
In addition to the existing lithium-ion battery coverage provided under the Nissan Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty for defects in materials or workmanship, the lithium-ion battery for your 2011 or 2012 Nissan LEAF is now also warranted against capacity loss below nine (9) bars (or approximately below 70 percent) as shown on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge for a period of 60 months or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first.
You lost it 5 months too late. The capacity warranty expired by then. Nissan wasn't legally obligated per the warranty that came about due to the Klee class action lawsuit settlement to help unless you lost the 4th capacity bar before expiration.
 
nbeker said:
I was disappointed because we bought this car as used car a couple of years ago and Nissan dealer did not explain to us that Nissan Leaf battery will have degradation early.
Your degradation is right about what Nissan expected. Why do you think the warranty period was chosen to be 5 years ?
Hopefully you were smart enough to buy the car cheap.

Frankly, it is easy to end up with a bad deal in a LEAF. A good deal requires a reasonable amount of knowledge about the car to avoid buying a degraded battery, knowing how local climate is going to age the battery, and willingness to look after the battery. AND an understanding that these are not long lived cars and should be valued as such.
 
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