2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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cwerdna said:
jbuntz said:
cwerdna said:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1591060294298139/ is a report of a 3 bar loser on a 30 kWh car. Post says location is Chandler, AZ, states car is 1.5 years old and shows 14,099 miles on the odo.

So he gets a new battery with the next bar loss?

Sam Backus, also from AZ, is reporting 3 bar loss in that same thread....
Sam Backus at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1641758815894953/ is now posting pics of being down 4 bars on his '16 SL in Phoenix. This makes at least the 2nd 4 bar loser on these 30 kWh Leafs.

From his post, I see these stats:
AHr: 47.42
SOH: 59%
Hx: 55.97%
odo: 24,004 miles

Seems like these model year '16 30 kWh batteries are about as bad as the '11 Leaf batteries in the heat.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when '17 Leafs in Phoenix hit the 2 year mark/go thru 2 Phoenix summers.

He also said
'm excited about the new battery but Nissan says it will only have a 12 month /12,000 mile warranty on the replacement battery, not the continuation of the original warranty

Uh oh
 
SageBrush said:
He also said
'm excited about the new battery but Nissan says it will only have a 12 month /12,000 mile warranty on the replacement battery, not the continuation of the original warranty

Uh oh
Which makes no sense. This contradicts common sense and what's in the warranty booklet. Replacing it shouldn't shorten the warranty but won't start the 8 year/100K clock over either. Worst case is 8 years/100K, whenever it originally ends... or if it were on the last day/mile of that warranty, he gets 12 months/12K miles additional.

From page 26 of the '16 Leaf warranty booklet I downloaded:
WHAT IS COVERED
Nissan2 warrants to correct defects in materials or
workmanship in all genuine Nissan replacement parts
and Genuine Nissan accessories, distributed by Nissan
North America in the United States, installed and used
on Nissan (if an appropriate use and application of the
part or accessory) vehicles only, except as described
under the caption below, “WHAT IS NOT COVERED.”
This warranty covers any repairs needed to correct
defects in materials or workmanship.
HOW LONG IS THE WARRANTY
Except for replacement audio components, this warranty
is for 12 months or 12,000 miles from the date of
installation or purchase, whichever is earlier. However,
the warranty on Genuine Nissan replacement parts and
Genuine Nissan accessories installed during the Nissan
New Vehicle Limited Warranty will extend through, and
will not end before, the end of that original warranty.
REPLACEMENT AUDIO COMPONENTS
A replacement Radio, Amplifier, Navigation Unit,
Bluetooth, Control Unit or Compact Disc Player/Auto
Changer supplied by Nissan is covered for 12 months
from the time of installation or the balance of the Basic
Vehicle Warranty as it applies to audio components,
whichever is greater.
 
Melody baker reports 4 bars lost and in the shop getting a replacement at less than 30,000 miles. AZ car.

This is the third one I have seen reported so far.
 
cwerdna said:
SageBrush said:
He also said
'm excited about the new battery but Nissan says it will only have a 12 month /12,000 mile warranty on the replacement battery, not the continuation of the original warranty

Uh oh
Which makes no sense. This contradicts common sense and what's in the warranty booklet. Replacing it shouldn't shorten the warranty but won't start the 8 year/100K clock over either. Worst case is 8 years/100K, whenever it originally ends... or if it were on the last day/mile of that warranty, he gets 12 months/12K miles additional.
My understanding is that replacement batteries do not carry a degradation warranty, but as you say they do not cancel the new car degradation warranty.
 
Picked up my 2016 from Nissan dealer today with a new battery. I asked about the warranty and was told it still falls under oringal 8 year warranty. If I fall below 9 bars in 2 years, I get another battery. If it faills again, another battery. Warranty only changes when you purchase a battery and it has a different warranty time frame. We’ll see how long this battery lasts. I won’t be charging every night so maybe that will help? I think it is just the hot Phoenix weather.
 
bakermel1 said:
Picked up my 2016 from Nissan dealer today with a new battery. I asked about the warranty and was told it still falls under oringal 8 year warranty. If I fall below 9 bars in 2 years, I get another battery. If it faills again, another battery. Warranty only changes when you purchase a battery and it has a different warranty time frame. We’ll see how long this battery lasts. I won’t be charging every night so maybe that will help? I think it is just the hot Phoenix weather.


Good deal and yeah, your warranty is the 100k, 8 year (non CA) and doesn't matter if its one pack or 10 replacements, you have the full time based on your "new car delivery date and mileage."

Have to say, I wasn't following your progress (this conversation was too far off the rails) so can you post a brief synopsis of the time frames and your previous charging habits? If you have LEAF Spy battery temps you see when its hot AND the ambients would be great as well.
 
BuckMkII said:
baustin said:
SOH is the State of Health of the battery, and is not directly tied to the State of Charge. If the car was made in February and sold in December, it likely sat on a dealers lot at 100% charge for 10 months. Even in a cooler climate, that is still hard on the battery.
It is just mind-boggling that Nissan cannot train their dealer network not to do this after all these years. How freaking hard is it to understand "turn on the 80% long-life settling and leave it on" so you don't ruin the customer's car?

I realize the dealer has little incentive to care (barring decreased sales of future Leafs when the problem gets around by word-of-mouth), but Nissan has a huge incentive not to be known for crappy battery life! Why don't they have someone in the corporate office who calls the dealers repeatedly and explains this and then reminds them regularly? This would seem like a pretty cheap fix (or, rather, workaround) for at least part of their battery life problem.

May be easy way is for Nissan to enable a setting not to charge the battery above 70% before delivery, rather than training sales staff. During delivery they can flip the switch to enable owner to chage to 100%. Yes charge to any % option need to be there too.
 
borugee said:
BuckMkII said:
baustin said:
SOH is the State of Health of the battery, and is not directly tied to the State of Charge. If the car was made in February and sold in December, it likely sat on a dealers lot at 100% charge for 10 months. Even in a cooler climate, that is still hard on the battery.
It is just mind-boggling that Nissan cannot train their dealer network not to do this after all these years. How freaking hard is it to understand "turn on the 80% long-life settling and leave it on" so you don't ruin the customer's car?

I realize the dealer has little incentive to care (barring decreased sales of future Leafs when the problem gets around by word-of-mouth), but Nissan has a huge incentive not to be known for crappy battery life! Why don't they have someone in the corporate office who calls the dealers repeatedly and explains this and then reminds them regularly? This would seem like a pretty cheap fix (or, rather, workaround) for at least part of their battery life problem.

May be easy way is for Nissan to enable a setting not to charge the battery above 70% before delivery, rather than training sales staff. During delivery they can flip the switch to enable owner to chage to 100%. Yes charge to any % option need to be there too.
Bourgee how is your battery doing since it looks like it went through a Texas summer on the dealers lot?
 
Hope this isn't a repeat.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/437741293059829/permalink/834609903372964/ from 9/27/2017 is a report of a 3rd bar lost on a 30 kWh '16 Leaf in Florida.
 
First year and a half I had a long commute and charged nightly. I put almost 30,000 miles on the car when I lost the fourth battery. Putting me at about 50 to 70 miles per charge. So I charged almost every day. I think the hot Phoenix summers did a toll on the battery. Now I will only have to charge every 2 to 3 days and it will not sit in the hot sun every day. We’ll see if that makes a difference on the battery at all. I do not have leaf spy.
 
jbuntz said:
borugee said:
BuckMkII said:
It is just mind-boggling that Nissan cannot train their dealer network not to do this after all these years. How freaking hard is it to understand "turn on the 80% long-life settling and leave it on" so you don't ruin the customer's car?

I realize the dealer has little incentive to care (barring decreased sales of future Leafs when the problem gets around by word-of-mouth), but Nissan has a huge incentive not to be known for crappy battery life! Why don't they have someone in the corporate office who calls the dealers repeatedly and explains this and then reminds them regularly? This would seem like a pretty cheap fix (or, rather, workaround) for at least part of their battery life problem.

May be easy way is for Nissan to enable a setting not to charge the battery above 70% before delivery, rather than training sales staff. During delivery they can flip the switch to enable owner to chage to 100%. Yes charge to any % option need to be there too.
Bourgee how is your battery doing since it looks like it went through a Texas summer on the dealers lot?

I am probably one of those unluky ones. I am already at 98% SOH, 93.5% HX, 78Ahr Capacity at 700miles. I think my battery is not going to do well. At delivery my battery was at 38 miles. I am assuming Dealer had my battery baked at 100% charge in TX summer :-(
 
borugee said:
jbuntz said:
borugee said:
May be easy way is for Nissan to enable a setting not to charge the battery above 70% before delivery, rather than training sales staff. During delivery they can flip the switch to enable owner to chage to 100%. Yes charge to any % option need to be there too.
Bourgee how is your battery doing since it looks like it went through a Texas summer on the dealers lot?

I am probably one of those unluky ones. I am already at 98% SOH, 93.5% HX, 78Ahr Capacity at 700miles. I think my battery is not going to do well. At delivery my battery was at 38 miles. I am assuming Dealer had my battery baked at 100% charge in TX summer :-(
I would say yours was healthy when you got it. Mine was at 68.93Ahr 86% SOH about 2 weeks after delivery. It went up to 72Ahr 90% after a month of full cycles and has been going down since then. 57.62AHr 72% as of today.
I tried to get them to take it back after I got LeafSpy but the dealer blamed Nissan and Nissan blamed the dealer.
 
SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
So what! I couldn't care less about a trivial discussion on "Remaining Bars":
Then do not participate in that part of the discussion, and certainly do not provide wrong data. You have @DaveinOly running off on a tangent now that LeafSpy is unreliable and maybe the LEAF battery is not so bio-degradable as trolls like me assert. So where are we with your battery ? Well, about 20% degradation after ~ 4 years. Right on track to have a hobbled battery after the warranty expires. Nissan thanks you for your business, and looks forward to selling you another 7 year wonder-car.

I agree with the remainder of your post, and am happy to read your example of a shallower degradation rate these last two years. Gerry in AZ reported the same degradation slope from new to 7 (or was it less ?) bars.

SageBrush,

I feel I must correct the misinformation you are reporting about my cars. My 2015 is almost 32 months old with 47,699 miles and still has 11 capacity bars. The 2011 was still at 11 bars on the replacement battery at 50,422 miles and 42 months after the original battery was replaced at 8 bars (28 months and about 30,000 miles). Therefore, I lost a total of 5 bars on the 2011 and 1 bar so far on the 2015 in a little over 98,000 total miles. It is disappointing to hear of 4 bars lost on several 30 kWh batteries with very low mileage.
 
GerryAZ said:
SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
So what! I couldn't care less about a trivial discussion on "Remaining Bars":
Then do not participate in that part of the discussion, and certainly do not provide wrong data. You have @DaveinOly running off on a tangent now that LeafSpy is unreliable and maybe the LEAF battery is not so bio-degradable as trolls like me assert. So where are we with your battery ? Well, about 20% degradation after ~ 4 years. Right on track to have a hobbled battery after the warranty expires. Nissan thanks you for your business, and looks forward to selling you another 7 year wonder-car.

I agree with the remainder of your post, and am happy to read your example of a shallower degradation rate these last two years. Gerry in AZ reported the same degradation slope from new to 7 (or was it less ?) bars.

SageBrush,

I feel I must correct the misinformation you are reporting about my cars. My 2015 is almost 32 months old with 47,699 miles and still has 11 capacity bars. The 2011 was still at 11 bars on the replacement battery at 50,422 miles and 42 months after the original battery was replaced at 8 bars (28 months and about 30,000 miles). Therefore, I lost a total of 5 bars on the 2011 and 1 bar so far on the 2015 in a little over 98,000 total miles. It is disappointing to hear of 4 bars lost on several 30 kWh batteries with very low mileage.

If I'm wrong, I appreciate the correction.
My memory was of your 2011 model, and my post referred to your Ahr loss per distance. Not fast or slow, but constant. Correct me if wrong.
 
2016 Leaf SV acquired in Dec 2015.
Currently at 32,600 miles.

It lost its 1st capacity bar this morning. GOM has dropped to 95 miles with 100% charge.

Charging habits:
100% charge daily overnight on level 2..
1 hour level 2 top up to 80% at workplace on most days..
Occasional use of DCFC to 80% about once a month for some weekend long drives...
About 30 DCFC sessions in 19 months.

Battery charging pattern is not extreme by any measure...
 
mihird said:
2016 Leaf SV acquired in Dec 2015.
Currently at 32,600 miles.

It lost its 1st capacity bar this morning. GOM has dropped to 95 miles with 100% charge.

Charging habits:
100% charge daily overnight on level 2..
1 hour level 2 top up to 80% at workplace on most days..
Occasional use of DCFC to 80% about once a month for some weekend long drives...
About 30 DCFC sessions in 19 months.

Battery charging pattern is not extreme in any sense...

Thanks for the data! By the way, by "east bay", are you referring to the Oakland/Hayward/Fremont part of northern CA?
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Thanks for the data! By the way, by "east bay", are you referring to the Oakland/Hayward/Fremont part of northern CA?

Dublin/Pleasanton...commute is from Dublin/Pleasanton to San Mateo and back...
 
mihird said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Thanks for the data! By the way, by "east bay", are you referring to the Oakland/Hayward/Fremont part of northern CA?

Dublin/Pleasanton...commute is from Dublin/Pleasanton to San Mateo and back...
Ahhh... Dublin gets quite hot during the summer and sometimes and is frequently within 5 to 10 degrees of the hottest cities in the Bay Area during the summer.

San Mateo's much milder.
 
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