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LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4776
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:35 am

When I think about this car potentially resulting in five battery packs ending up in landfills, everything that went into manufacturing them, shipping them around and whatnot, all for only a little over 100k miles of driving it's hard to feel good about having done anything wonderful for the environment.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

cwerdna
Posts: 10415
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:42 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:When I think about this car potentially resulting in five battery packs ending up in landfills, everything that went into manufacturing them, shipping them around and whatnot, all for only a little over 100k miles of driving it's hard to feel good about having done anything wonderful for the environment.
Nissan has introduced systems which repurpose old Leaf batteries:
https://www.nissan.co.uk/experience-nis ... issan.html
https://uk.eaton.com/content/gb/en/prod ... m/xstorage
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/15/ni ... y-storage/

Nissan has also found other uses like https://cleantechnica.com/2016/07/02/ni ... ta-center/.

AFAIK, the packs should be recycled after they're no longer useful.

BTW, let's assume it is a horrible 5 packs. That's 150 kWh worth of batteries or 1.5 100 kWh Tesla Model S/X.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

samrovner
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:48 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jul 2016
Leaf Number: 310120
Location: Surprise, AZ

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:31 am

samrovner wrote:Hey Guys, I have a 2016 SV with a 30 kWh battery that has lost two bars. The first was around 12k miles, and the second at 17k miles. My car is now at 19,800 miles and I FINALLY bought Leaf Spy and an OBDII adapter because my range has dropped considerably in the past month or so. My stats are as follows, AHr = 52.31, SOH = 65%, and Hx = 61.23%. I am now getting range anxiety on my 65 mile daily commute (roundtrip). I'm in Phoenix, and while I know that the heat kills our battery, I expected it to hold up better than my 2013 SV that did not have the "Lizard Pack". My 2013 lost it's first bar around 20k miles, and when I turned it in at 47k I had just lost my 3rd bar. At this rate I feel like I'll be due for a 4 bar replacement in no time. I've read through this thread, and can't seem to find out when to expect to lose my 3rd and 4th bars. Does this knowledge exist yet? Also should I be concerned something else is wrong with it, possibly bad cells or something? I'm happy I decided to lease again, as I almost went with the purchase option given the larger battery. I do charge to 100%, and use a L2 charger at home. According to LeafSpy I have used QC 6 times. Any thoughts?
Well I finally lost my fourth bar at 59% SOH, 47aHr, and around 22.5k miles. Thanks Nissan for making me wait this long. On the bright side I will have a better grasp on when to expect bar losses... SMH. Have an appointment with the dealership in an hour. Wonder what the turnaround time is going to be.

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LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4776
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:08 am

These 30kwh packs are an unmitigated disaster in warm climates.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

hyperionmark
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2017
Location: Nebraska

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:19 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:These 30kwh packs are an unmitigated disaster in warm climates.
Sounds like it! So crazy!

What was the difference, other than total kWh's, in the packs from the previous year? Same battery chemistry, right?

samrovner
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:48 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jul 2016
Leaf Number: 310120
Location: Surprise, AZ

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:43 am

It's crazy to think I dropped two more bars in that short of a duration.

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4776
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:50 am

hyperionmark wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:These 30kwh packs are an unmitigated disaster in warm climates.
Sounds like it! So crazy!

What was the difference, other than total kWh's, in the packs from the previous year? Same battery chemistry, right?
That's an unknown to me. Also unknown in our situation is the effects of those months between manufacturing and when we took delivery. Three apparent possibilities:
- The pack was damaged during that time via neglect that has resulted in accelerated degradation
- Nothing really bad happened during that time, but the degradation is worse simply because the pack was six months older at the in service date
- Those 5-6 months had no effect, and these packs just drop four bars in two years
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

johnlocke
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:39 pm

It appears that battery degradation is a function of ageing and ambient temps. Mileage doesn't appear to be related. Because of the way that Nissan implemented the capacity loss bars most people haven't noticed the loss yet. What we seem to be seeing is that people who bought in early 2016 and live in hotter climates are seeing the most degradation. What I'd be curious to know is who has a 2016 and lives in a warm climate like Phoenix or Dallas and hasn't seen major degradation? Is this a limited problem with a few cars or is it endemic to the 30 KWH battery? Cars reporting losses seem to be across a wide spread of purchase dates so a bad batch of batteries doesn't seem likely but is still possible.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:18 pm

johnlocke wrote:It appears that battery degradation is a function of ageing and ambient temps. Mileage doesn't appear to be related.
True in a practical way, since these are all low mileage cars.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

jbuntz
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:41 am
Delivery Date: 17 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 303765
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:23 pm

samrovner wrote:It's crazy to think I dropped two more bars in that short of a duration.
Sam, you lost bar 3 and 4 in 2 months?
Mfg 11/15 Del 12/16 TX 2016 SL 30kWh,
Date Bar MI GID Ahr SOH
05/17 12 05175 324 70.75 89
08/17 11 09245 282 61.68 77
10/17 10 12000 260 57.22 71
01/18 09 15329 244 53.72 68
06/20 08 21716 230 50.41 63
06/27 11 22047 296 66.01 83 Aftr Updt

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