2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Here's my story.

10/30/17
2016 Nissan Leaf SL Mfg 12/15 Del 1/25/16 30 Oct 2017 34172 mi Ahr 67.69 SOH 85% Hx 78.55%

According to the above chart (assuming linear progression) this is where I'm tracking:

34,000 85% CURRENT
45,333 80% BAR 1
61,200 73% BAR 2
77,067 66% BAR 3
90,667 60% BAR 4

Driving/charging Characteristics:

* I do about 50/50 L2|L3
* 95% of my driving is in-town
* I charge to 100% about 20% of the time
* I drive it hard (hey, I'm being honest here)

Looks like I have a 30KWh pack that’s losing capacity also. What point do you have to reach before the warranty kicks in?

2016 SV with build date of 10/2015

Fully charged, LeafSpy says 19.1kWh capacity. Significantly below name plate of 30 kWh. (Understand it was never 30 kWh but suspect is over 25% loss already)


AHr: 52.96
SOH: 66% 394.77V
Hx: 60.83%
odo: 27k
3 QCs
823 L1/L2s
242 GIDs

Drive habits.
75 mile a day round trip (mostly highway) and charge to 100% daily. Battery has degraded to the point I’m bearly able to drive round trip without charging.

bdgriner said:

Looks like I have a 30KWh pack that’s losing capacity also. What point do you have to reach before the warranty kicks in?

2016 SV with build date of 10/2015

Fully charged, LeafSpy says 19.1kWh capacity. Significantly below name plate of 30 kWh. (Understand it was never 30 kWh but suspect is over 25% loss already)


AHr: 52.96
SOH: 66% 394.77V
Hx: 60.83%
odo: 27k
3 QCs
823 L1/L2s
242 GIDs

Drive habits.
75 mile a day round trip (mostly highway) and charge to 100% daily. Battery has degraded to the point I’m bearly able to drive round trip without charging.

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At 66% SOH, you're pretty close! I recall someone speculated that 63% is the 4th bar cut-off. Would love to have more empirical evidence to support that.

Could you also update your location info in your profile, so we can get an idea of whether or not extreme heat is an issue in your battery loss?

I live in Birmingham Alabama so it does get warm but not extreme. In fact, the two summers I’ve had the vehicle, the summers have been on the mild side. Limited days above 95 and none above 100. Am worried about the winter and decreased range coming up. I barely make the round trip to work now.

I believe that the real pack killer is very warm days, combined with very warm nights, more than just hot days alone. I imagine that you see a lot of weather like that. As for your Winter commute, slowing down a bit and reducing the heat just slightly should help more than you expect.

17 months old, 15,500 miles just lost the third bar.

bdgriner said:

Looks like I have a 30KWh pack that’s losing capacity also. What point do you have to reach before the warranty kicks in?

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Loss of 4 capacity bars on your display (just to the right of the charge bars.)
It is not yet certain what battery capacity that maps to but somewhere around 60% SOH, or about 49 Ahr

Ive only had LeafSpy for a short time and dropped from SOH of 67% to 66% in 340 miles. Trying to extrapolate when i cross 60% at this point would have a significant error. Assuming a few things like its a linear trend and the quality of these two data points is good, I could be at SOH of <60% as soon as another 2,000 miles but suspect its closer to 3,000 miles or within 3 months. Looks like my new years present in January. Making appointment with my local dealer now. Maybe its something easy to fix like a equalize charge (glass half full thought). It works good on wetted lead acid batteries when you first start seeing ICV or specific gravity issues.

For us the question isn't how much longer until it qualifies for replacement, but whether Nissan will replace the pack multiple times. I don't see where they wouldn't be obliged to do so. At current course and speed we will have only gotten 2 years and 20k miles when the fourth bar is lost. Admittedly this car purchased in June 2016 was manufactured in January 2016, so there may well have been damage if it sat for a long time at low SOC, but that time of year is mostly the more moderate temps in central Florida. That said, it had all its bars when it was purchased. The car was a little more "lightly used" for the first several months but is now tracking about 1k miles/month. Unless the time it sat on the lot was a big factor, or replacement packs are somehow improved we could be looking at new packs every 2.5 years or 20k miles at:

replacement 1: 2 years in service, 20k miles
replacement 2: 4.5 years in service, 50k miles
replacement 3: 7 years in service, 80k miles

If the time it sat on the lot wasn't a factor it could be more like:

replacement 1: 2 years in service, 20k miles
replacement 2: 4 years in service, 44k miles
replacement 3: 6 years in service, 68k miles
replacement 4: squeak in just under 8 years in service, 92k miles ?

I even wondered if Nissan would be interested in swapping the car out for an ICE; it would probably save them in the long run, but I think trying to find anyone to talk to about that would just be an exercise in futility.

LTLFTcomposite said:

For us the question isn't how much longer until it qualifies for replacement, but whether Nissan will replace the pack multiple times. I don't see where they wouldn't be obliged to do so.

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IIRC, I think there's been at least 1 case of multiple pack replacements under warranty here on MNL on a 24 kWh Leaf. I agree on the latter.

When I think about this car potentially resulting in five battery packs ending up in landfills, everything that went into manufacturing them, shipping them around and whatnot, all for only a little over 100k miles of driving it's hard to feel good about having done anything wonderful for the environment.

LTLFTcomposite said:

When I think about this car potentially resulting in five battery packs ending up in landfills, everything that went into manufacturing them, shipping them around and whatnot, all for only a little over 100k miles of driving it's hard to feel good about having done anything wonderful for the environment.

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Nissan has introduced systems which repurpose old Leaf batteries:
https://www.nissan.co.uk/experience-nissan/electric-vehicle-leadership/xstorage-by-nissan.html
https://uk.eaton.com/content/gb/en/products/electrical/xStorage.html?wtredirect=www.eaton.com/xstorage
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/15/nissan-recycles-ev-batteries-home-energy-storage/

Nissan has also found other uses like https://cleantechnica.com/2016/07/02/nissan-ev-batteries-reused-french-data-center/.

AFAIK, the packs should be recycled after they're no longer useful.

BTW, let's assume it is a horrible 5 packs. That's 150 kWh worth of batteries or 1.5 100 kWh Tesla Model S/X.

samrovner said:

Hey Guys, I have a 2016 SV with a 30 kWh battery that has lost two bars. The first was around 12k miles, and the second at 17k miles. My car is now at 19,800 miles and I FINALLY bought Leaf Spy and an OBDII adapter because my range has dropped considerably in the past month or so. My stats are as follows, AHr = 52.31, SOH = 65%, and Hx = 61.23%. I am now getting range anxiety on my 65 mile daily commute (roundtrip). I'm in Phoenix, and while I know that the heat kills our battery, I expected it to hold up better than my 2013 SV that did not have the "Lizard Pack". My 2013 lost it's first bar around 20k miles, and when I turned it in at 47k I had just lost my 3rd bar. At this rate I feel like I'll be due for a 4 bar replacement in no time. I've read through this thread, and can't seem to find out when to expect to lose my 3rd and 4th bars. Does this knowledge exist yet? Also should I be concerned something else is wrong with it, possibly bad cells or something? I'm happy I decided to lease again, as I almost went with the purchase option given the larger battery. I do charge to 100%, and use a L2 charger at home. According to LeafSpy I have used QC 6 times. Any thoughts?

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Well I finally lost my fourth bar at 59% SOH, 47aHr, and around 22.5k miles. Thanks Nissan for making me wait this long. On the bright side I will have a better grasp on when to expect bar losses... SMH. Have an appointment with the dealership in an hour. Wonder what the turnaround time is going to be.

These 30kwh packs are an unmitigated disaster in warm climates.

LTLFTcomposite said:

These 30kwh packs are an unmitigated disaster in warm climates.

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Sounds like it! So crazy!

What was the difference, other than total kWh's, in the packs from the previous year? Same battery chemistry, right?

It's crazy to think I dropped two more bars in that short of a duration.

hyperionmark said:

LTLFTcomposite said:

These 30kwh packs are an unmitigated disaster in warm climates.

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Sounds like it! So crazy!

What was the difference, other than total kWh's, in the packs from the previous year? Same battery chemistry, right?

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That's an unknown to me. Also unknown in our situation is the effects of those months between manufacturing and when we took delivery. Three apparent possibilities:
- The pack was damaged during that time via neglect that has resulted in accelerated degradation
- Nothing really bad happened during that time, but the degradation is worse simply because the pack was six months older at the in service date
- Those 5-6 months had no effect, and these packs just drop four bars in two years

It appears that battery degradation is a function of ageing and ambient temps. Mileage doesn't appear to be related. Because of the way that Nissan implemented the capacity loss bars most people haven't noticed the loss yet. What we seem to be seeing is that people who bought in early 2016 and live in hotter climates are seeing the most degradation. What I'd be curious to know is who has a 2016 and lives in a warm climate like Phoenix or Dallas and hasn't seen major degradation? Is this a limited problem with a few cars or is it endemic to the 30 KWH battery? Cars reporting losses seem to be across a wide spread of purchase dates so a bad batch of batteries doesn't seem likely but is still possible.

johnlocke said:

It appears that battery degradation is a function of ageing and ambient temps. Mileage doesn't appear to be related.

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True in a practical way, since these are all low mileage cars.

samrovner said:

It's crazy to think I dropped two more bars in that short of a duration.

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Sam, you lost bar 3 and 4 in 2 months?