Are you sure about that ?abasile wrote: That said, with four or five temperature bars, our LEAF's regen is now poor even at relatively low SOCs. On a long downgrade, the LEAF also tends to limit sustained regen. So even if I were to start the 4,900' descent with 15 kW of regen available on a good day, there'd be practically no regen available after maybe 2000' of elevation loss.
I know, it shouldn't be that way, as there ought to be plenty of room for a few kWh or so if the LEAF is charged to about 50%. (Remember that some of that potential energy is lost to friction, aero drag, and drivetrain losses.) But that's been my experience. At least it was my experience until last year when we got another EV which we use for all of our trips off the mountain, and I have no reason to believe the LEAF gets better with age!SageBrush wrote:Are you sure about that ?abasile wrote: That said, with four or five temperature bars, our LEAF's regen is now poor even at relatively low SOCs. On a long downgrade, the LEAF also tends to limit sustained regen. So even if I were to start the 4,900' descent with 15 kW of regen available on a good day, there'd be practically no regen available after maybe 2000' of elevation loss.
4900 feet is about 6 - 7 kWh of potential energy
Our MY2011 LEAF has lost three capacity bars and can charge at a rate of 25 kW up to about 70% SOC, yet the regen operates just as abasile describes. This evening I saw the regen put out about 10 kW when the car was traveling at about 40 MPH at the top of the mountain, but the power level dropped to about 5 kW after the car had sped up to 65 MPH. (On this mountain, about 20 kW is required to maintain a constant speed. Our 15.5-year-old Honda Civic Hybrid with its original battery (that has a BMS which has also been reprogrammed after a lawsuit) does a better job holding its speed on this mountain than the LEAF.SageBrush wrote:Interesting. That is unexpected.
What sustained charge rates during QC can the LEAF accept ?
No, the issues abasile describes are more significant when the battery is cold.SageBrush wrote:Is your traction battery actually hitting such high temperatures that it goes into a turtle-ish mode ?
Nah. They ALL work this way after the P3227 reprogramming. They are not likely to replace a battery that is working just like all other degraded batteries.SageBrush wrote:Nissan will probably try to tell you it is a matter of expected degradation, but they will be wrong.
Get your case documented before the 8/80 defect warranty lapses, and fight until you get the defect resolved.
No, I noticed this immediately after the P3227 update, my car was flashed in July '13. TomT and DaveinOlyWA also noticed, too. P3227 definitely reduced the amount of available regen.GerryAZ wrote:Those who claim the P3227 software update significantly reduced regeneration probably did not have enough degradation to notice the reduced regeneration as the weather cooled in the fall of 2012.
this is not my experience. I have several hills where I would coast in neutral to 70+ mph then shift to drive and regen down the hill. before the update, I would easily light up all 4 regen circles for more than 30 seconds. After the flash, I would be lucky if I could light up all 4 circles for 10 seconds. The SOC or temps seemed to have no effect. I have a video of my car at about 50% SOC and only 2 regen circles available and no it wasn't that cold. In fact, its almost never that cold where I live.GerryAZ wrote:The original 2011 and 2012 batteries from Japan have higher internal resistance after some degradation than the 2015 lizard batteries. The internal resistance also increases as battery temperature decreases. I saw the regeneration drop significantly on my 2011 as the ambient temperatures cooled off in the fall of 2012 (long before the P3227 software update was issued) when it had 10 capacity bars. I saw no change to regeneation when the P3227 software update was performed as part of the testing after the car was down to 8 capacity bars in the summer of 2013. Regeneration was restored when the battery was replaced in October of 2013, but available regeneration was already dropping by the time the car met its demise in January 2015. Those who claim the P3227 software update significantly reduced regeneration probably did not have enough degradation to notice the reduced regeneration as the weather cooled in the fall of 2012. The software update on most cars was done during the spring and summer of 2013. The loss of regeneration was heavily discussed on the forum during fall and winter of 2013 after cars in mild climates had enough battery deterioration to make it noticeable.
In contrast, my 2015 has significant regeneration available within a mile or two after leaving the house with a full charge (even with over 50,000 miles on the original battery).
OK, I stand corrected. Since my battery was down to 8 capacity bars before the software update and I had already lost most regeneration, I did not see a change. I seemed to have normal regeneration with the replacement battery (installed in October 2013) until it started to deteriorate and temperatures dropped in the fall of 2014. One thing the software update did was greatly improve the accuracy of the dashboard instrumentation and data on the CAN bus available through LEAF Spy. I would sometimes see the battery charge bars drop much faster than normal on my way to work (slightly downhill) and see commensurately low SOC (and low "GID" numbers) with LEAF Spy. When that happened, I would get to work with only 3 charge bars left and still make it home without stopping to charge (9 bars going downhill to work and remaining 3 bars to return home). The Gids and SOC would drop to some point and then stay steady for a while and then start dropping again. This instrumentation behavior never happened after the software update.drees wrote:No, I noticed this immediately after the P3227 update, my car was flashed in July '13. TomT and DaveinOlyWA also noticed, too. P3227 definitely reduced the amount of available regen.GerryAZ wrote:Those who claim the P3227 software update significantly reduced regeneration probably did not have enough degradation to notice the reduced regeneration as the weather cooled in the fall of 2012.