iPlug
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Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:02 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
iPlug wrote:Frustrating that many paid more for the 30 kWh battery via purchase or lease, yet now have a range that would be less than had they gone with the 24 kWh battery instead.
Not quite. 30 kwh pack would still have a bit more range.
We’re down 3 bars, SOH: 66, Hx: 65%. That would be less usable battery capacity after 20 months of lease than a 24kWh battery, no?
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14697
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Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:29 pm

iPlug wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
iPlug wrote:Frustrating that many paid more for the 30 kWh battery via purchase or lease, yet now have a range that would be less than had they gone with the 24 kWh battery instead.
Not quite. 30 kwh pack would still have a bit more range.
We’re down 3 bars, SOH: 66, Hx: 65%. That would be less usable battery capacity after 20 months of lease than a 24kWh battery, no?
oh I gotcha. Perhaps. On 24 kwh pack, you would only have to be about? what 82% or so to have same range without ever enjoying the longer initial range and more importantly the faster QC

I was actually thinking of the point when you would qualify for a replacement pack and despite the larger pack, the 30 kwh pack might only be only a few miles longer in range. due to the low SOC for the 4th bar over the 24kwh pack
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 7059.6 mi, 95.35% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

daw37
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:05 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Dec 2017
Leaf Number: 307785

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:12 pm

I have lost my first capacity bar on my 2016 LEAF that I leased late Feb, ’16, build date 02-16, 30kWh battery.

I owned a 2011 Leaf that we drove 3-1/2 years, & 27k miles without loosing a bar (then totaled in an accident). I was expecting that kind of results with the 2016 and am really disappointed. I’m very happy with the car otherwise and intended to keep it long term, but maybe not now.

I noticed the bar loss in November after 1 yr 8-1/2 months, 16,100 miles.
BTW, the Leaf Spy Help document for iOS states the first capacity bar is dropped when SOH drops to “85% for a month of so…” (p.10 in the SOH paragraph - don’t know if that has been mentioned in this thread.)

I got a friend to take a reading with his LeafSpy a couple weeks after I noticed the lost bar:

AHr=62.40
SOH=78%
Hx=74.97%
17 QCs & 819 L1/L2s

When the car was new, the GOM was VERY accurate and reliable. Now it is over estimating the mileage to empty. It estimates miles consistent with about a 10% loss in capacity, but reality is more like the 15-20% loss that the SOH is indicating.

I’m in Kansas City, but garage the car when not in use. Generally have charged to 80-90% unless I know I’m going on a longer drive; don’t charge until SOC is < 50%; seldom discharge to less than 20%.

Nissan has stated to me that they have studied it, and don’t believe charging to 100% makes much difference. I noticed some references to “long life mode” in the manual, but the main reference to it in the charge timer section has been removed, and that function has been removed from the charge timer in the car.

My friend with the LeafSpy coincidently lost his first bar on the day he read my car’s stats. He has similar mileage, usage, and same build date.

dfwpev
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:15 am

Lost the 4th bar at 19800 miles on my 30KW 2016 Leaf. The dealer ordered one after a battery health check, and he is putting it in this week. This car is just 2 years old (bought Jan 2016), and another interesting note is the 12 V battery failed a load check and had to be replaced as well. I noticed a loss of range to about 80 miles before I took it in. My Leaf Pro stats are: SOH 65%, Hx63.36% AHr 52.1 at 89% SOC. This car lives in Dallas TX.
2016 Red SL 1/5/16
AE charger with a 220 plug-in cord

johnlocke
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:38 am

daw37 wrote:I have lost my first capacity bar on my 2016 LEAF that I leased late Feb, ’16, build date 02-16, 30kWh battery.

I owned a 2011 Leaf that we drove 3-1/2 years, & 27k miles without loosing a bar (then totaled in an accident). I was expecting that kind of results with the 2016 and am really disappointed. I’m very happy with the car otherwise and intended to keep it long term, but maybe not now.

I noticed the bar loss in November after 1 yr 8-1/2 months, 16,100 miles.
BTW, the Leaf Spy Help document for iOS states the first capacity bar is dropped when SOH drops to “85% for a month of so…” (p.10 in the SOH paragraph - don’t know if that has been mentioned in this thread.)

I got a friend to take a reading with his LeafSpy a couple weeks after I noticed the lost bar:

AHr=62.40
SOH=78%
Hx=74.97%
17 QCs & 819 L1/L2s

When the car was new, the GOM was VERY accurate and reliable. Now it is over estimating the mileage to empty. It estimates miles consistent with about a 10% loss in capacity, but reality is more like the 15-20% loss that the SOH is indicating.

I’m in Kansas City, but garage the car when not in use. Generally have charged to 80-90% unless I know I’m going on a longer drive; don’t charge until SOC is < 50%; seldom discharge to less than 20%.

Nissan has stated to me that they have studied it, and don’t believe charging to 100% makes much difference. I noticed some references to “long life mode” in the manual, but the main reference to it in the charge timer section has been removed, and that function has been removed from the charge timer in the car.

My friend with the LeafSpy coincidently lost his first bar on the day he read my car’s stats. He has similar mileage, usage, and same build date.
The LeafSpy help info is for the 24 KWH battery. The 30 KWH battery is different. First bar won't drop until you hit approximately 80%, second bar at 74%, third bar at 67% and the fourth bar may not drop until you hit 60%. Depending on your driving habits and whims of the BMS, the % points may vary slightly. Keep in mind that Nissan's BMS never actually charges the battery to 100% but limits it to a max of 4.12 vdc per cell. 100% charge would put the cell at 4.17 vdc. LeafSpy SOC will only show 97.5% at 100% charge according to the BMS.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

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jhm614
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:03 am

dfwpev wrote:Lost the 4th bar at 19800 miles on my 30KW 2016 Leaf. The dealer ordered one after a battery health check, and he is putting it in this week. This car is just 2 years old (bought Jan 2016), and another interesting note is the 12 V battery failed a load check and had to be replaced as well. I noticed a loss of range to about 80 miles before I took it in. My Leaf Pro stats are: SOH 65%, Hx63.36% AHr 52.1 at 89% SOC. This car lives in Dallas TX.
Wow! Sorry for your loss but glad the warranty is taking care of you. Did you buy or lease?
2011 Brilliant Silver SL - 110,000 gasoline free miles so far.
4BL: 06/29/13 @ 27 months, 43,520 miles, 42.56 Ahr. New 12 bar battery: 09/09/13
4BLx2:12/31/16 @ 69 months, 99,475 miles, 42.99 Ahr.

SageBrush
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:14 pm

dfwpev wrote:Lost the 4th bar at 19800 miles on my 30KW 2016 Leaf. The dealer ordered one after a battery health check, and he is putting it in this week. This car is just 2 years old (bought Jan 2016), and another interesting note is the 12 V battery failed a load check and had to be replaced as well. I noticed a loss of range to about 80 miles before I took it in. My Leaf Pro stats are: SOH 65%, Hx63.36% AHr 52.1 at 89% SOC. This car lives in Dallas TX.
Good information.
So the first bar threshold has been tampered with, but if your car is typical the warranty will kick in at ~ 63 -- 65% of new capacity.

That is a relief.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
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Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:16 pm

dfwpev wrote:Lost the 4th bar at 19800 miles on my 30KW 2016 Leaf. The dealer ordered one after a battery health check, and he is putting it in this week. This car is just 2 years old (bought Jan 2016), and another interesting note is the 12 V battery failed a load check and had to be replaced as well. I noticed a loss of range to about 80 miles before I took it in. My Leaf Pro stats are: SOH 65%, Hx63.36% AHr 52.1 at 89% SOC. This car lives in Dallas TX.
Good information.
So the first bar threshold has been tampered with, but if your car is typical the warranty will kick in at ~ 63 -- 65% of new capacity.

That is a relief.
There are going to be some great off-lease deals in a year or so, so long as the buyer does not mind battery replacement as frequent as every two years and periodic range drop to 65% of new.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14697
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:16 pm

dfwpev wrote:Lost the 4th bar at 19800 miles on my 30KW 2016 Leaf. The dealer ordered one after a battery health check, and he is putting it in this week. This car is just 2 years old (bought Jan 2016), and another interesting note is the 12 V battery failed a load check and had to be replaced as well. I noticed a loss of range to about 80 miles before I took it in. My Leaf Pro stats are: SOH 65%, Hx63.36% AHr 52.1 at 89% SOC. This car lives in Dallas TX.
Interesting you dropped your 4th with your stats at or near the mid 60 % mark
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 7059.6 mi, 95.35% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maggie
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:20 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 301689
Location: Port St Lucie, FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:56 pm

Hi. Very first post. Our SV is a 2016 30kwh model, born 10/2015, we bought 12/19/2015 with 100 miles. I would say we push this car to the limit --- we drive 84 miles round trip each day, with an L1 trickle charge in-between for 8 hrs; then an L2 charge back to 100% each night. We drive all highway miles, generally 65-68 mph which is crazy dangerous on Florida highways since no one goes that slow! And yes, Florida -- We just had a super hot summer, AND we have to park the car during those weekday charges in an un-shaded paved lot. With that said, our SOH is 60.63%, AHr 48.19 and it has 39,119 miles. We have 9 bars. GOM [new lingo I have learned, so proud of myself] is 65 or so after a full charge. Frequently reach the turtle warning on our daily trip home, and go past it once in a while--but try hard not to have this happen. From this forum, we expect our 4th bar may go around ahr43-41 or so..? Which may not be till the summer, but there are too many factors at play, that it's seems difficult to say that for sure in our case.
Here are my questions: We didn't realize we were supposed to go for battery checkups each year, could that be a big problem?---should we go to the Nissan dealer NOW and get a reading and start planning for the new battery with them? We probably will need that new battery right away, and it takes a while to order/install from what I have read. It says in the warranty Nissan doesn't have to give us a battery that has 12 bars but anything over 9--- how often does that happen? Seems like people would just be coming right back for another battery if they were doing that. AND...just curious about the brand new 2018 battery that has a range of 150--- does anyone know if that is going to fit into previous year 30kwh vehicles, or is the battery now completely different? I heard somewhere Nissan sold the battery making to someone else?

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