Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

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jake14mw

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2017
Messages
180
Location
Connecticut, USA
Hi all,

Purchased my 2014 SL a month and a half ago. I live in CT. I have really loved it, and have been telling all my friends about it. I bought it strictly as a financial decision, paid $10,000 for a well equipped car that looked new and would be low cost to drive.

Now the deep freeze has arrived. I knew that this would cut the range, but did not realize how much. Yesterday, the car was fully charged. My wife took the kids to the mall. This is about a 32 mile round trip. When she got home, there were 12 miles of range left. This really cuts the car's usefulness in the winter. She could not have decided to go somewhere else if she wanted to on the way home.

The second issue with the cold is that charging takes MUCH longer. The car was charging for over 12 hours overnight, and she took it to work this morning. I'm worried it didn't charge up enough so that she can easily make it to work and back even though it is only a 28 mile round trip. I wanted to check on it, but (grrrr... more on this below) She usually likes to stop and grocery shop on the way home. I'm not sure she will be able to do that without worrying about it.

On New Year's Eve, we used the car some during the day, then went to friend's house at night. Had 24 miles of charge left. When it was time to go out and pick up some Chinese food, we couldn't take my car that I have been gushing about to get it, not enough range :oops: .

Anyway, back to me wanting to check the range on the car while my wife is at work this morning. Tried Nissan Connect EV. "Service cannot be provided." Then I got User ID / Password invalid. I've seen many different errors with the app, but that one is new! Tried the third party app, Leaf Manager, got Unkown error (401). I have been get that error without fail for about a week. A few days ago, I tried Uninstalling and reinstalling the Nissan EV app, and that helped a little bit, it connected about half of the time, but now nothing. I am SICK and TIRED of their app not working. In the winter, the app turns from a nice to have convenience to a little more of a necessity. I have read all the complaints from others, this seems like a software issue that Nissan refuses to fix. Apparently their EV customers are not important enough to them. This is reinforced to me by the fact that my local Nissan dealer has a Chademo charger that has been broken for 2 years.

I know the cold snap we have been experiencing has been extreme, but it does happen in the winter. When I was researching them, I saw people talking about how the Leaf was not ideal for hot climates because of the lack of battery cooling. So is it a car for moderate climates only? What this has reinforced to me is that the 2018 Leaf. with 150 mile range will not be an option for me in the future. 150 miles in the spring is fine, 100 in the winter is not in 2018.

Wow, OK, rant over. I still like the car, and spring is 3 months away.
 
Strange that you are having such range issues. I have been driving my LEAF here in Alaska for the past number of months in single digit and below temps and getting considerably more range than you. I have a 2014 S... not sure if that makes any difference?
 
Leaver said:
Strange that you are having such range issues. I have been driving my LEAF here in Alaska for the past number of months in single digit and below temps and getting considerably more range than you. I have a 2014 S... not sure if that makes any difference?

That's because we know nothing about the "state" of his car when he bought it...or whether he is charging @L1 or L2 (no way a Leaf could be charging for 12 hours @L2); it could have spent the last 3 years in Florida and had the BMS reset. For that matter, your driving habits could be completely different; if you blast the heat @70 mph in 20 degree weather, you're not going to go far!

Separately, it sounds like the OP needs to get his CarWings/NissanConnect account figured out (and review the "Telematics Hardware Upgrade" thread.)
 
Jake,


So, as asked, how are you charging your car at home? Are you using a normal household plug (Level 1 charging), or did you have a 240v plug installed with an EVSE to charge it with(Level 2)?

If you are using level 1 charging, yes, it will be slow, especially if you take the battery down to close to empty! I would recommend using Level 2 charging, so it will charge faster.

How is your battery capacity:
nissan-leaf_100345617_m.jpg


If you look at that picture, to the far right is the battery capacity, measured in bars. When it is a new battery, it will have 12 bars, but over time it dwindles. When you lose capacity, the battery will not perform as it should and it will lose charge faster.

How many bars does yours have!

As you mentioned, yes, cold weather will lower battery charge faster, especially if you use the heater. If you can do it comfortably, use the seat heaters and the sterring wheel heater and it won't drop as fast as turning on the heater.

The heater in the 2013-2014 Leaf is more efficient than the 2011-2012, so at least you have that going for you!
 
Thanks for the replies. The car has 12 bars remaining. According to Leafspy, it had 93% SOH when I bought it, down to 92% now. The range in the first few weeks of driving was fine. The weather here has been extreme over the past two weeks, daytime highs teens or twenties nighttime lows around 0. This is my issue, the difference between the usability with normal chilly weather and extreme cold.

I am charging the car with a level 1 charger, but I am working on installing a Level 2 charger.
 
Block the grille with cardboard (not sure how much it helps, though, even after 4 years of doing it), make sure the tires have 40-42psi, and tell your wife that blasting the heat will cost range. I'm experiencing the same issues in upstate NY, and I do sympathize. You should have about 45 miles of range in frigid weather, though, with that SOH, so behavior modification is in order. A heated 12 volt fleece throw blanket can help reduce heater use - not as in turning it off, but as in using lower blower speeds.
 
Bundle up with warm clothes and gloves, and use the seat heaters. The cabin heating is a pig.
 
I had the same probelms and here is what I was able to do to improve the functionality of the car.
First thing the guest of meter is no very useful as sometimes is very optimistic sometimes, one thing I did was to drive the car until the car went into turtle mode this way you will get to know the car and know how many miles you can actually get, then make sure to always pre heat the car before you leave, the nissan connect is close to useless as always is having problems, use leaf manager in on device only and pay for the widget as this will allow you to only click on the widget and this will turn on the heat, then make sure to check the psi on the tires.
 
Driving the car to Turtle mode in this weather is NOT a good idea. Consider the Very Low Battery Warning your lower limit, and use that to determine actual, safe range. Generally, though, if the GOM reads say, 15 miles when you get home, actual range won't be far from that. The GOM is mainly useless at the beginning of a drive - it gets better near the end. There is also a much more accurate range estimator in the SV and SL, accessed by pressing the little blue and white (IIRC) button on the steering wheel, and using the LOWER figure that shows on the Nav screen.
 
Cold is hard on range and I don't believe it is primarily from the additional heat use. I know cold air is more dense and heave heard the capacity of the battery goes down as the battery gets colder. Whatever the case there are multiple things playing in to the range reduction.

As to the 12 hour charging, even on a level 2 EVSE at 6 kw I have had it sit and charge for over 6 hours. I can see with Leaf Spy it is at 98% at 2.5 hours. After that I can see the EVSE pulling between 250 and 750 watts. So it either does a LOT more top end balancing or maybe it warms the pack a bit or ? I don't know what it is doing, but it is doing something. with that power. I guess my point is it probably charges full in a slightly longer time than usual, but then keeps charging after that so it should be full or darn near it after 12 hours, has it been?
 
Yes, wintertime is shockingly worse in the LEAF. In our 2011, the resistance of one specific cell-pair increases to the point that id dominates capacity during cold weather. Even two years ago we were unable to travel 50 miles at 10 degrees Fahrenheit into a headwind. We generally are more cautious about range below about 20 degrees F.
jake14mw said:
I know the cold snap we have been experiencing has been extreme, but it does happen in the winter.
It does get cold every winter, but this storm brought high winds with it, which greatly reduces range (except when it is pushing you from directly behind).

FWIW, our 2011 SL LEAF was parked this week. Normally my wife uses it for her 50-mile commute over a 600-foot-high mountain, but the cold (we only got down to zero Fahrenheit here in VA) combined with the wind meant that it would be hard for her to make it home all week. She will resume driving it on Monday.

With 92% of the original capacity left and a 28-mile RT commute, I think you will be able to enjoy your LEAF for may years to come.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Block the grille with cardboard (not sure how much it helps, though, even after 4 years of doing it).
Wouldn't blocking the grill only make the heat pump have to work harder and diminish range in an SV or SL? It might help a little in an S though, although I have my doubts.

My suggestions are:
  • Get a level 2 EVSE installed and preheat, preheat, preheat your car before any trip. Even if CarWings/NissanConnect doesn't work, at least go out and mess with the darn preheat timer. If you preheat you can go several miles without even needing the heater. But you need the level 2 charger to be able to preheat and leave with 100% charge.
  • If you haven't been doing it, just keep your seat and steering wheel heaters on all the time. They use hardly any electricity compared to the main heater. Then turn the main heater down or off.
  • With a Level2 EVSE you can set the charge timer to come on in the morning and charge to 100% right before you take off, which helps warm up the battery a little, although I really haven't seen that it helps much.
 
Wouldn't blocking the grill only make the heat pump have to work harder and diminish range in an SV or SL? It might help a little in an S though, although I have my doubts.

No, because the outside air is colder - usually MUCH colder - than the air in the motor compartment in Winter when the block is in place. Having frigid air rushing through the coils doesn't help the heat pump.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Wouldn't blocking the grill only make the heat pump have to work harder and diminish range in an SV or SL? It might help a little in an S though, although I have my doubts.

No, because the outside air is colder - usually MUCH colder - than the air in the motor compartment in Winter when the block is in place. Having frigid air rushing through the coils doesn't help the heat pump.

if it is as cold as east coast is right now then the heat pump does nothing at all anyway. blocking the grill will help with aerodynamics a little bit on the highway. best bet for winter range increase is to keep the cabin heat off or very low and use the seat and steering wheels heaters.

OP: do you park in the garage? that will help with range too, as the battery pack is warmer when you get going. right now your battery pack warmers are kicking in too which sucks up additional range.

Marko
 
if it is as cold as east coast is right now then the heat pump does nothing at all anyway. blocking the grill will help with aerodynamics a little bit on the highway.

I'm guessing that there are exposed bits of the PTC in the motor compartment as well, and that cutting down on the gale of frigid air blowing through there helps. I could be mistaken.
 
estomax said:
...
OP: do you park in the garage? that will help with range too, as the battery pack is warmer when you get going. right now your battery pack warmers are kicking in too which sucks up additional range.

Marko

I park in the driveway. With our driveway/garage configuration, and the number of cars we have, parking the Leaf in the garage for charging is not practical. I do realize that would help. Thanks.
 
IssacZachary said:
LeftieBiker said:
Block the grille with cardboard (not sure how much it helps, though, even after 4 years of doing it).
Wouldn't blocking the grill only make the heat pump have to work harder and diminish range in an SV or SL? It might help a little in an S though, although I have my doubts.

My suggestions are:
  • Get a level 2 EVSE installed and preheat, preheat, preheat your car before any trip. Even if CarWings/NissanConnect doesn't work, at least go out and mess with the darn preheat timer. If you preheat you can go several miles without even needing the heater. But you need the level 2 charger to be able to preheat and leave with 100% charge.
  • If you haven't been doing it, just keep your seat and steering wheel heaters on all the time. They use hardly any electricity compared to the main heater. Then turn the main heater down or off.
  • With a Level2 EVSE you can set the charge timer to come on in the morning and charge to 100% right before you take off, which helps warm up the battery a little, although I really haven't seen that it helps much.
Very good advice
 
LeftieBiker said:
Wouldn't blocking the grill only make the heat pump have to work harder and diminish range in an SV or SL? It might help a little in an S though, although I have my doubts.

No, because the outside air is colder - usually MUCH colder - than the air in the motor compartment in Winter when the block is in place. Having frigid air rushing through the coils doesn't help the heat pump.
Are you sure? How do we know this? The only sources of heat are the motor and controller that are some 90% efficient. Depending on driving style they may produce next to no heat. At full speed you might get as much heat as a small portable electric heater, or around 1,500W of heat (60mph uses around 20hp or 15kW 10% of which is 1.5kW). And the heat pump can use some 3kW of electricity meaning it's pumping around 3kW of heat. To get 3kW of heat in the engine compartment you'd really need to be going quite fast (90mph perhaps). Or at least that's how I see it.

What we need is a test. Maybe someone has already done such a test? And the test isn't just the engine compartment. It's the temperature of the heat pump's heat exchanger in the grill that would determine efficiency. Air has to circulate through the heat exchanger for it to work. Otherwise it will get very cold and stop working, even if the rest of the motor compartment is warmer than outside.
 
You seem to be thinking that the grille block seals the motor compartment. That doesn't happen. People have run the A/C with one in place. It just reduces airflow.
 
The heat pump has its limits, below 35-30F the heat pump can't get more heat from the outside so the resistance heater has to work, this one is inside the car and doesnt use any liquids on the 2013 and up models, so blocking the grill doesnt do anything, the best thing to do is pre heat the car, inflate tires properly and drive careful.
The reason I said before to run you car to turtle mode is so you get to know how many miles you get after very low battery, do in a test around your house, the reason is in my car i was able to get 10 more miles after very low batter in the summer going 35-40 mph, while winter is different knowing the limitations of the car allows you to drive it more.
 
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