Is this SOH normal?

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kEV

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Messages
5
Hello all,

I just purchased my first Leaf CPO from a dealer a few days ago in Bartlett, Tennessee. 2015 SV with 4900 miles, 12 bars. Got a great price too. I live in St. Louis, MO

I also just used Leaf Spy last night to check things out (I didn't have the app or OBDII connector when purchasing). When scanning for the first time, the outside temp was 13F and the SOH showed 87.35%, AHr of 54.24, Hx 79.27%, 8 QCs, 366 L1/L2. These numbers seem very low for a car with only 4900 miles on it. I also did a QC on the way home the night before I used Leaf Spy.

I know low temps decreased the capacity, but is this low of a SOH normal for such low miles? Any suspicion from the dealer?

Thanks.

Kevin
 
LeftieBiker said:
The car probably came from a hot climate. That would be low for a 2015 from a cool climate.

I forgot to add, the previous owner was the dealer. They used it as a demo vehicle, so it remained in Tennessee the whole time.
 
Sounds like a classic example of what can happen when a car sits at 100% in hot weather a lot. Ironically, being neglected by the dealership is better for most Leafs.
 
So what do you suggest about how to move forward?

- Is there anything that can be done about the battery degradation with the dealer?
- If the battery has been degraded by misuse up until my ownership and then I start to treat it well (e.g. charging between 20-80% in cool temperatures, etc), does the degradation slow down or will it degrade in a linear fashion?
- Should I try to be conservative with the battery at this point or try to beat it down hoping to get it below 9 bars with the three years remaining on the warranty?
 
Since it is a "Lizard Pack" and you don't live in a really hot climate, pamper it. Charge to 100% only when you will both be driving it soon afterward and you really need the range. Otherwise try for 70-90% by the Guestimation method (find how much charge gets added per hour with your charging setup, and unplug it manually). Also try to avoid charging when the temp "gauge" on the dash reads 6 temp bars or more.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Since it is a "Lizard Pack" and you don't live in a really hot climate, pamper it. Charge to 100% only when you will both be driving it soon afterward and you really need the range. Otherwise try for 70-90% by the Guestimation method (find how much charge gets added per hour with your charging setup, and unplug it manually). Also try to avoid charging when the temp "gauge" on the dash reads 6 temp bars or more.

Thanks for this info. Does the battery degradation slow down if I start to pamper it?
 
There is no need to pamper it. My experience is that LEAF Spy numbers drop when I drive the 2015 gently on suburban streets and do partial charges. The numbers increase back to normal (with slow decline over long time period) when I return to my normal freeway driving with deep discharge and 100% L2 overnight charging. The 2011 was just a steady (much more rapid) decline over time (both original and replacement batteries). DCQC also improves numbers and increases the actual energy the 2015 battery will store (as measured by revenue accuracy meter on input to EVSE). My guess is that you have some permanent battery deterioration due to temperature and time and some additional indicated deterioration (low LEAF Spy numbers) due to frequent short charges, shallow discharges, and short surface street test drives by the dealer and possible customers. Your LEAF Spy numbers should improve with normal daily driving and overnight L2 charging. Try to discharge to VLBW (very low battery warning with --- indicated for remaining range) before an overnight charge once in a while to give the LBC (lithium battery controller, also called BMS for battery management system) a chance to learn the current battery capacity. Occaisional DCQCs would be good if you have convenient access to chargers. Don't be afraid to charge to 100% overnight if you are driving it every day. If you are going to park it for more than a day or two, try to park with 70% SOC or less. It sounds like a nice car and it should serve you well unless you need absolute maximum range of a new battery.

As a comparison, here are my Leaf Spy numbers from last night: AHr=46.29, SOH=74.54%, Hx=52.49%, QC=125, L1/L2=871, and odometer=53,808 miles. My car has been charged to 100% nearly every charge cycle and spent its entire life in Phoenix, AZ. The original battery has lost 2 capacity bars, but this is much better than the 2011 which was down to 8 capacity bars and had the original battery replaced after 27 months of use. The replacement battery had been down to 11 bars for a while by the time of the crash after a total of 42 months and 50,422 miles (15 months and about 15,000 miles on the replacement battery).
 
Gerry, why would you want to tell him to drive his car like you do, when you are down to 74% capacity? You live in a hotter climate, but his isn't exactly Seattle, either... My advice remains to treat the car as gently as is easily possible.
 
I dunno, it's a '15 with very low miles and should still have the full manufacturer warranty remaining on it. I also say to drive it like normal and the '15 had what? 96 months/100,000 mile warranty on the battery right? Capacity was 60 months/60,000 miles correct? I'm in the same boat as a used Leaf will be my only realistic option down the road to get into an EV and I had planned on doing what the OP did. My plan is to save enough so that I can buy one used in cash and then set aside battery pack money for down the road (as much as I really wish that wasn't necessary).
 
The "Lizard" battery was designed to eliminate degradation bad enough to qualify for warranty replacement, and so far that is the case - outside of very Hot places like Arizona. Trying to get a 12 bar '15 pack to qualify for a new warranty replacement is likely to get the OP nothing more than a 10 bar Leaf as the warranty expires.
 
Lefty,

As I noted before, my experience is that Leaf Spy numbers drop for the 2015 when the car is driven and charged gently. We can argue about the reasons, but there is another thread that discusses it. You are correct, there is very little chance of qualifying for a replacement 2015 battery under the capacity warranty. I suggest the OP just drive and charge the car normally. I doubt there is much benefit in trying to limit charge level if the car is driven daily and some cell balancing is lost when charging is stopped early.
 
We are really pretty close in advice, then. I don't suggest never charging to 100%, just to try to avoid it when it does no good, and to avoid charging at all when the pack is hot. One interesting question that occurs to me: is it safe to charge a Lizard pack with 6 temp bars displayed? Maybe...
 
LeftieBiker said:
We are really pretty close in advice, then. I don't suggest never charging to 100%, just to try to avoid it when it does no good, and to avoid charging at all when the pack is hot. One interesting question that occurs to me: is it safe to charge a Lizard pack with 6 temp bars displayed? Maybe...

My battery is at 5 temperature bars now (at night in January). If I did not charge at 6 temperature bars (or 7 or 8), I would not be able to drive the car in the summer. Is it safe? Yes--there will not be catastrophic failure. Is it detrimental? I doubt it, but who knows? Charging at 8 or above is probably detrimental, but I don't worry because I bought the car to use.

Kevin should get a lot of use out of his low-mileage car. The Leaf Spy numbers will likely improve for a while with normal use and the long term 2015 battery deterioration in his relatively mild climate should be minimal.
 
By "safe" I meant "Does a Lizard pack degrade as little when charged at 6 bars as a 3/2013-2014 "Wolf" pack does at 5 bars? I fully understand that many drivers have to charge at 6 or 7 bars, but we are fairly certain that at least from 7 bars on up that degrades the pack faster. The poster to whom I'm responding seems willing to take some extra precautions to extend his pack's life, so I'm just trying to give reasonable advice for that particular situation.
 
I really appreciate the info here guys. It's helping me learn how to use the car. I'm a little worried about how fast the battery percentage drops right now in the winter and wanted to run the numbers by you to see if this is normal.

Temp outside 22F. I left this morning at 96% (67 mile range) to do some errands with D mode on (no eco) and drove it normally, switching over to B mode (no eco) quickly as the battery dropped to 88% rather quickly. My wife was with me, so two seat heaters and running the heat too. ~1.8 mil/kW

I've just returned home, 30 mile round trip, now 40% (27 mile range). This seems like the battery just plummets as I'm driving it. I know it's cold outside but I'm limited to very short errand trips around the city worrying about getting stuck on the side of the road in the freezing temps.

Is this normal??
 
As the temperature drops the range drops as well, especially when you use heat. That is NOT an admonishment not to use the heat, just a statement of reality. Your car isn't rapidly losing capacity, it's just using lots of juice to run the heater. Even the heatpump-equipped cars turn into energy hogs when temps fall below the upper twenties.
 
In my limited experience, the range drops dramatically below freezing. We had a cold snap last month and I was amazed how much my range went down, even avoiding using the heat as much as possible. Lately it's warmed up here in the PNW to the 40's and everything is back to normal. I had read that the range was reduced by cold weather, but I was still shocked by how much it was reduced!
I suppose you just have to plan accordingly during the winter.
 
Kevin,

Since the car only has 4900 miles on it, I assume you still have the Michelin tires that came on it. I suggest that you inflate them to at least 40 and preferably 44 psi to get best tread life and range. Your 1.8 mi/kWh consumption rate indicates a lot of energy was being used (cabin heat probably used a fair amount) so your range will be down and 40% SOC left after driving 30 miles seems reasonable. Try to preheat the cabin while plugged in so that less battery power is used for heat. There is a setting for the climate control timer and remote activation desired temperature set point under one of the menus on the navigation screen. I suggest that you set that to 85 or 90 degrees F for heating so that the heat will run steady while preheating to get the car as warm as possible while plugged in. You will need to set the desired temperature lower for A/C pre-cooling next summer.
 
kEV said:
with D mode on (no eco) and drove it normally, switching over to B mode (no eco)
In addition to that GerryAZ said about tire pressure, consider using ECO mode. It will improve your range by helping reduce the power you get when you press the accelerator. If you need full power, just press the accelerator all the way.
 
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