2018 LEAF, Capacity, Range and efficiency

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What I meant was... that none of the rapid degradation of the previous Leaf batteries, of any year, has been acceptable to me. ;) And... that my belief is that the 2018 Leaf battery, which is still designed without liquid management, will have a much shortened life without it.

Do I hope that (if possible) Nissan and their battery supplier can discover the battery that doesn't need it? Sure! But not the way they have been doing it at great expense to their customers and dinging EV battery reputation.

Give us batteries proven to work now and continue their research in their own experimental department and release it if they can perfect it. If it proves to be possible, it would be better. There would be less energy used on a daily basis and probably cheaper to produce.

If they could provide such a battery, their reputation is damaged, so, it will take some real convincing to trust that they have provided a battery without a TMS that will have the durability and longevity that it should.
 
What would be acceptable? I wondered that myself and I guess it really depends on the size of the pack.

In 30 kwh pack; no more than 2% per 10,000 miles or less than 20% after 100,000 miles or 5 years, whichever is LATER.

On a 40 kwh pack, I would go either no more than 1% per 10,000 miles or MORE than 5% per year (so I get a replacement pack) since the range at replacement would still be near 100 miles :)
 
In a well maintained Toyota or Honda the car can be expected to run 250k miles before a major repair occurs, and the repair is (just guessing here) in the $2-4,000 dollar range. For some people the more expensive upfront cost can be offset by the fuel savings over time but the Nissan EV longevity issue is far, far away from being fixed. 100k miles is not going to come close to being competitive unless the battery replacements are $1000
 
SageBrush said:
In a well maintained Toyota or Honda the car can be expected to run 250k miles before a major repair occurs, and the repair is (just guessing here) in the $2-4,000 dollar range. For some people the more expensive upfront cost can be offset by the fuel savings over time but the Nissan EV longevity issue is far, far away from being fixed. 100k miles is not going to come close to being competitive unless the battery replacements are $1000

I don't think so.. At 100K miles, one can be prepared to put in a new transmission or engine on an ICE. If you have to change a battery on the Leaf at 100K miles, then that battery has given you great service for those miles.... Putting in a new battery cost would be giving the car a new life for the next 100K miles. A $6000 investment on a Leaf is a bargain to get another 100K miles. If any car without an engine is basically worth scrap, then the investment will save $15,000 in gas that you did not buy, and also saved $$$ on other repairs.

I really am surprised that so many people are concerned with depreciation, and the resale value of the Leaf when they are only Leasing. An owner would see that there is still value of the depreciated Leaf in being able to drive gas-free as long as he (she) is able to own that car.
 
powersurge said:
SageBrush said:
In a well maintained Toyota or Honda the car can be expected to run 250k miles before a major repair occurs, and the repair is (just guessing here) in the $2-4,000 dollar range. For some people the more expensive upfront cost can be offset by the fuel savings over time but the Nissan EV longevity issue is far, far away from being fixed. 100k miles is not going to come close to being competitive unless the battery replacements are $1000

I don't think so.. At 100K miles, one can be prepared to put in a new transmission or engine on an ICE. If you have to change a battery on the Leaf at 100K miles, then that battery has given you great service for those miles.... Putting in a new battery cost would be giving the car a new life for the next 100K miles. A $6000 investment on a Leaf is a bargain to get another 100K miles. If any car without an engine is basically worth scrap, then the investment will save $15,000 in gas that you did not buy, and also saved $$$ on other repairs.

I really am surprised that so many people are concerned with depreciation, and the resale value of the Leaf when they are only Leasing. An owner would see that there is still value of the depreciated Leaf in being able to drive gas-free as long as he (she) is able to own that car.

Agreed. We all have this false impression of these cars but reality simply does not jive here. We got a Yaris at around 30,000 miles (probably a rented rental) and it had timing belt, brakes, alignment, cooling system thingy, (I bought the car but not my car so don't remember all that has happened) and the car has yet to hit 130,000 miles.

Granted there are a bunch of cars out there that will go 200,000 miles with relatively few minor repairs but that is not the norm.

I have to say its probably not the car but the roads which are getting worse by the day.

But again, we are using the past of a rapidly emerging technology to predict the future while ignoring the basics.
whatever.
 
The idea that good quality ICE vehicles will go 250k miles without a major repair is, while not quite a myth, misleading. The reality is that many of them will SURVIVE that long, albeit usually with major repairs. Volvos are, or used to be, excellent examples of that. Some people do go 250k miles before a major system fails, but that's usually by racking up many miles over a short time period.
 
In my area of the country the body usually fails long before the mechanicals :(
One of my previous vehicles, a Geo Metro 5 door that would routinely get +50 MPG hwy and high 40s city! was 10 years old, 80k miles(I didn't drive much) and the engine and 5 speed was like new(I changed oil every 3k). When I was going around a cloverleaf and the whole front of the car fell on the front tire :shock:
Apparently the Metro had a design defect where the area the shock/spring mounted to would rust through and the front of the vehicle would collapse!
Engine and drive train like new, due to the thin metal they used(to keep it under 1700 lbs!) repairing was not an option and I basically had to throw the car away :(
After than I only changed oil on my ICE's every 5-6k figuring in the end rust would kill them, not engine failure :x
 
This is a Japanese blog that I stumbled across through a YouTuber.

https://ev-owners.jp/blog/blog.cgi?id=6352

I will have to wait until some American usage statistics come out before I can even think of getting rid of my '15 SV and leasing a new one. I own mine, and at 42k miles I still have maximum usage for my commutes. At 12 bars, I may run it to 100,000 miles before I replace the main battery pack.

The words get jumbled in translation, but the message is still there. "The battery gets hot quickly, and the charge rate plummets".

(big sigh)
 
LeftieBiker said:
The idea that good quality ICE vehicles will go 250k miles without a major repair is, while not quite a myth, misleading.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-repair-maintenance/make-your-car-last-200-000-miles/

Keep in mind that this article was talking about any car that is not a dud; the best Japanese brands are still significantly better.

The Prius wagon I sold this year to swap to a Prius Prime had 100k miles and might as well have been brand new. The quality is just amazing. You can see the same thing in the LEAF, by the way: other than the battery the car is extremely reliable.
 
Jedlacks said:
This is a Japanese blog that I stumbled across through a YouTuber.

https://ev-owners.jp/blog/blog.cgi?id=6352

...The words get jumbled in translation, but the message is still there. "The battery gets hot quickly, and the charge rate plummets"...
Google translation does not produce that actual quote.

Not enough intelligible data there to really discuss, initial charge state, ambient/battery temperatures, charger ratings etc.

We'll have many long-range trips with charging rate data from USA LEAFs to consider, very soon.

But thank you for making a semi-on-topic comment, after the 25 consecutive off-topic comments before, and already one more afterwards.
 
edatoakrun said:
Jedlacks said:
This is a Japanese blog that I stumbled across through a YouTuber.

https://ev-owners.jp/blog/blog.cgi?id=6352

...The words get jumbled in translation, but the message is still there. "The battery gets hot quickly, and the charge rate plummets"...
Google translation does not produce that actual quote.

Not enough intelligible data there to really discuss, initial charge state, ambient/battery temperatures, charger ratings etc.

We'll have many long-range trips with charging rate data from USA LEAFs to consider, very soon.

But thank you for making a semi-on-topic comment, after the 25 consecutive off-topic comments before, and already one more afterwards.

No thanks for your summary, troll.
 
EPA test results for 2018 LEAF indicate usable pack capacity is close to 40 kWh, highway and city test cycle results respectively:

...Recharge Event Energy (kiloWatt-hours) 44.8318
187.709 Charge Depleting Range (Actual miles) 187.709...

AC Energy(kWh/100mile):23.8837 , Net Vehicle DC energy consumption [DC Wh/mile]:209...
Recharge Event Energy (kiloWatt-hours) 44.8318
Charge Depleting Range (Actual miles) 231.462...

AC Energy(kWh/100mile):19.3689 , Net Vehicle DC energy consumption [DC Wh/mile]:170...
https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=42085&flag=1
 
edatoakrun said:
EPA test results for 2018 LEAF indicate usable pack capacity is close to 40 kWh, highway and city test cycle results respectively:

...Recharge Event Energy (kiloWatt-hours) 44.8318
187.709 Charge Depleting Range (Actual miles) 187.709...

AC Energy(kWh/100mile):23.8837 , Net Vehicle DC energy consumption [DC Wh/mile]:209...
Recharge Event Energy (kiloWatt-hours) 44.8318
Charge Depleting Range (Actual miles) 231.462...

AC Energy(kWh/100mile):19.3689 , Net Vehicle DC energy consumption [DC Wh/mile]:170...
https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=42085&flag=1

I have yet to figure out what the baseline parameters are for a full pack is.

Each full charge has varied in GID, SOC and kwh available. Highest usable was 39.5 kwh available but with LEAF Spy measured SOC of 99.5%!
 
Today I drove my brand new, 2018 SL for about 75 miles, mixed 70 mph hwy, stop and go HWY and local roads.... drove hard playing around
and feeling all that new torque, and arrived home with 51%. NOW THAT IS PROGRESS. And the high pitched whine is gone that I had on the former leaf.

497 GIDS after charging last night.

Propilot drove perfectly through Chicago stop and go traffic, keeping safe distance from car in front and couple of cars that cut in the gap the leaf left in front of me.

I'm 235 lbs, 6 ft 1 and my legs enjoyed the freedom to be off the pedal, the center console? (fake news?) was not a concern, the analog speedometer has a cool retro look. I programmed driving into default E mode.

Bill Kay Nissan gave me 10k for my old leaf that Carmax had offered 7.5k..... and $1000 loyalty credit. 0% financing for I forget how many years. It still had 282 GIDS after 3.5 years on the trusty old leaf. Total cost of maintenance <$500 (tire changes, brake flush and new 12v battery)

By backup old ICE, a 2007 Lexus LS430 that I used when the old Leaf could not make the distance is going be a very lonely car.

Time to change my signature
 
I’ve been driving my Leaf for less than 20 days but I hit 1,620km this evening (just over 1000mi) and my efficiency thingy says 8.6km/kWh average. Whoever delivered it had a lead foot or had the air on all the time or something because it got to me at 5.1 and it’s slowly been climbing since I took over.

I live in a mountainous area and my commute involves going up and down from sea level to 800m two or three times. I’m really quite impressed with how it performs. I think I could easily get 9km/kWh in the city. That would translate to a 200mi range.

I drive with Eco mode and e-Pedal with the car in B. I don’t notice much difference between B and D when e-Pedal is on, but I like to think I get better regen or something.
 
Jedlacks said:
edatoakrun said:
Jedlacks said:
This is a Japanese blog that I stumbled across through a YouTuber.

https://ev-owners.jp/blog/blog.cgi?id=6352

...The words get jumbled in translation, but the message is still there. "The battery gets hot quickly, and the charge rate plummets"...
Google translation does not produce that actual quote.

Not enough intelligible data there to really discuss, initial charge state, ambient/battery temperatures, charger ratings etc.

We'll have many long-range trips with charging rate data from USA LEAFs to consider, very soon.

But thank you for making a semi-on-topic comment, after the 25 consecutive off-topic comments before, and already one more afterwards.

No thanks for your summary, troll.

How is that a troll? He just pointed out that it doesn’t say what you claim and doesn’t have enough other information to draw any conclusions.

Basically, dude went on a 4 day road trip, drove 1500km, and was disappointed in the charging stations. Some gave as little as 9.6kWh in 30 minutes. I can tell you he’s just goofy. When you buy the car they tell you to avoid 20kW chargers unless you just want a quick top up, and that it takes 40 minutes to get to 80% at a Nissan 44kW or service area 50kW charging station. He goes on to say that he hopes the rumored 150kW chargers are installed at service stations soon.

The part you mention says, “It says on some other blog that quick charging heats up the battery and the amount you can charge is diminished. Indeed, in one 500km leg of my trip where I charged 5 times, the amount diminished as I progressed.”

However, he doesn’t say what type of chargers he stopped at, how hot it was outside, or anything that will help us know if this is a real issue. Service areas along toll roads tend to have 50kW chargers, but I’ve seen 20, 25, 30, 40, 44, and 50kW “quick” chargers.

I’ve never seen the battery even get to the halfway mark of the heat bar thing in all my quick charging. But to be fair it’s been between 0 and about 15C every day since I got the car.
 
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