2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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Just dropped down to the 8th bar, wife noted this on turning on the vehicle this morning, stats on return:

AHr= 52.35
SOH= 65.87%
Hx= 62.84%
Odo= 18,050 mi
QC= 30
L1/L2= 629

Warmer climates are certainly one of the major variables, so thought this milestone might take at least until spring. But it seems these 30 kWh batteries degrade significantly even during moderate/cool winter periods.

I'll be taking the Leaf into the dealership later this afternoon for them to run their confirmatory diagnostics at to then setup battery replacement.
 
@iPlug,
I noticed in your Sig "3.70 UEF heat pump water heater."

What does the number and UEF mean ?
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
dwl said:
BuckMkII said:
Do Nissan dealers log the use of their CHADEMOs? If not, if you wanted to abuse your battery, Denver gets pretty warm in the summer. Drive at 85 MPH up I-70 to Genesee Park (a steep climb) on a summer afternoon, zip back down to C-470, repeat until empty, then CHADEMO at Empire Nissan. You could pull this off at least twice in a day. That oughta heat the pack to a dull red glow.

Not that I'm endorsing this behavior, but the potential is there if someone thinks they need to do it.
Not a good idea to get too hot as Nissan can see what you have done. Look at battery temperature in table at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=182552#p182552

Welps, there goes the "park it fully charged under the sun" idea. Thanks for sharing that topic! Never knew that they had such info.
Does this info void the warrantee? Hard to believe that, or all cars sold from dealers in hot, sunny climes would be voided, unless only the owner is required never to park the car in the sun.
 
BuckMkII said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
dwl said:
Not a good idea to get too hot as Nissan can see what you have done. Look at battery temperature in table at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=182552#p182552

Welps, there goes the "park it fully charged under the sun" idea. Thanks for sharing that topic! Never knew that they had such info.
Does this info void the warrantee? Hard to believe that, or all cars sold from dealers in hot, sunny climes would be voided, unless only the owner is required never to park the car in the sun.

I'm assuming that this info is gathered during the annual battery check? If so, then it would look awfully suspicious if the stats drastically change in years 5, 6, or 7 just as the mileage nears the end of the warranty point. Which is what eatsleafsandshoots wanted to do.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
BuckMkII said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Welps, there goes the "park it fully charged under the sun" idea. Thanks for sharing that topic! Never knew that they had such info.
Does this info void the warrantee? Hard to believe that, or all cars sold from dealers in hot, sunny climes would be voided, unless only the owner is required never to park the car in the sun.

I'm assuming that this info is gathered during the annual battery check? If so, then it would look awfully suspicious if the stats drastically change in years 5, 6, or 7 just as the mileage nears the end of the warranty point. Which is what eatsleafsandshoots wanted to do.

Why not just blame climate change like everybody else? :)
 
iPlug said:
Just dropped down to the 8th bar, wife noted this on turning on the vehicle this morning, stats on return:

AHr= 52.35
SOH= 65.87%
Hx= 62.84%
Odo= 18,050 mi
QC= 30
L1/L2= 629

Warmer climates are certainly one of the major variables, so thought this milestone might take at least until spring. But it seems these 30 kWh batteries degrade significantly even during moderate/cool winter periods.

I'll be taking the Leaf into the dealership later this afternoon for them to run their confirmatory diagnostics at to then setup battery replacement.
Sorry to hear you have lost 4 bars and hopefully warranty replacement goes smoothly. Did you find your range has dropped roughly in line with change in reported SoH?
 
SageBrush said:
@iPlug,
I noticed in your Sig "3.70 UEF heat pump water heater."

What does the number and UEF mean ?
GRA said:
SageBrush said:
@iPlug,
I noticed in your Sig "3.70 UEF heat pump water heater."

What does the number and UEF mean ?
See https://www.hotwater.com/uef/ and

https://www.rheem.com/understanding-energy-efficiency-in-water-heaters/
UEF = Uniform Energy Factor

This recently replaced the old EF rating from the DOE. It is supposed to be a better reflection of real world scenarios.

To the uninitiated, this piece from 2012 sums up EF:

Electric-resistance vs. heat-pump water heating

Up until recently, almost all electric water heaters relied on electric-resistance heat. Electric current flows through a special element with high electrical resistance, and the electricity is converted directly to heat. The conversion of electricity into heat is virtually 100% efficient—though heat loss from an electric storage-type water heater always results in an overall efficiency lower than 100%. (Note that if we’re looking at primary or source energy that the power plants use to produce the electricity, the efficiency is far lower.)

Heat pump water heaters are very different. Electricity isn’t converted directly into heat; rather it is used to move heat from one place to another. This is counter-intuitive because the heat is moved from a colder place (the room air where the water heater is located) to a warmer place (the water in the storage tank).

This seemingly magic process happens because a specialized refrigerant fluid is alternately condensed and evaporated in a closed loop. This process relies on phase changes of the refrigerant that capture and release significant amounts of heat.

A detailed explanation of the refrigerant cycle is beyond the scope of this blog. Trust me that it works. (It’s the same basic principle used in your refrigerator, which extracts heat from inside that insulated box and dumps it into your kitchen.)

The net result is that for every one kilowatt-hour (kWh) of electricity consumed, two or more kWh’s of hot water are produced. The energy factor, which is often thought of as a measure of efficiency, is 2.0 to 2.5 for most heat-pump water heaters on the market, while a 100% efficient electric-resistance water heater would have an energy factor of just 1.0.


https://www.buildinggreen.com/news-article/look-heat-pump-water-heaters
 
dwl said:
iPlug said:
Just dropped down to the 8th bar, wife noted this on turning on the vehicle this morning, stats on return:

AHr= 52.35
SOH= 65.87%
Hx= 62.84%
Odo= 18,050 mi
QC= 30
L1/L2= 629

Warmer climates are certainly one of the major variables, so thought this milestone might take at least until spring. But it seems these 30 kWh batteries degrade significantly even during moderate/cool winter periods.

I'll be taking the Leaf into the dealership later this afternoon for them to run their confirmatory diagnostics at to then setup battery replacement.
Sorry to hear you have lost 4 bars and hopefully warranty replacement goes smoothly. Did you find your range has dropped roughly in line with change in reported SoH?
Not sure. It's my wife's car. A couple months ago I noticed the vehicle only had 9 bars after she told me about worsening range. She thought the year before she was getting less range than in the beginning, but I chalked it up to driving habits and did not look into it at the time. My first check was on 12/12/2017 when I saw the 9 bars left and then showed:

AHr= 53.31
SOH= 67%
Hx= 65.40%
Odo= 16,478 mi
QC= 26
L1/L2= 535

As you can see, that's a significant drop in Hx all during cool/cold winter months. The hot summers here must have also been a factor seeing where others in warm climates are also getting the biggest losses. But the 30kWh battery is losing capacity faster than the 24kWh version in more moderate climates.
 
iPlug said:
SageBrush said:
@iPlug,
I noticed in your Sig "3.70 UEF heat pump water heater."

What does the number and UEF mean ?
GRA said:
SageBrush said:
@iPlug,
I noticed in your Sig "3.70 UEF heat pump water heater."

What does the number and UEF mean ?
See https://www.hotwater.com/uef/ and

https://www.rheem.com/understanding-energy-efficiency-in-water-heaters/
UEF = Uniform Energy Factor

This recently replaced the old EF rating from the DOE. It is supposed to be a better reflection of real world scenarios.

To the uninitiated, this piece from 2012 sums up EF:

Electric-resistance vs. heat-pump water heating

Up until recently, almost all electric water heaters relied on electric-resistance heat. Electric current flows through a special element with high electrical resistance, and the electricity is converted directly to heat. The conversion of electricity into heat is virtually 100% efficient—though heat loss from an electric storage-type water heater always results in an overall efficiency lower than 100%. (Note that if we’re looking at primary or source energy that the power plants use to produce the electricity, the efficiency is far lower.)

Thanks.
I used to thinking in terms of COP for heat pumps; this UEF does not sound much different although it may be trying to fold other inefficiencies into the number.

Does your heater have any TOU controls ?
 
SageBrush said:
Does your heater have any TOU controls ?
No, wish it did. Hoping they will add a firmware update some day, but doubtful.

We have one of the latest Rheem 65 gallon units. For about $49 we added a WiFi module (EcoNet) that lets you adjust some of the settings that you can right on the water heater like on/off, temperature, mode (heat pump only, hybrid, electric resistance only, etc), vacation mode, etc.

Still, for our TOU plan, a heat pump water heater works nicely. It consumes most energy during our coldest 6 “winter” months when electricity is cheapest. During the 6 “summer” months, the heat pump would run a few hours max in the morning after showers before the high afternoon TOU rates kick in. Again, in the evening after showers the heat pump would run again, but at mostly partial peak or off peak rates and very efficiently as transferring heat from the hot summer garage air.
 
iPlug said:
SageBrush said:
Does your heater have any TOU controls ?
No, wish it did. Hoping they will add a firmware update some day, but doubtful.

We have one of the latest Rheem 65 gallon units. For about $49 we added a WiFi module (EcoNet) that lets you adjust some of the settings that you can right on the water heater like on/off, temperature, mode (heat pump only, hybrid, electric resistance only, etc), vacation mode, etc.
The wi-fi controls sound pretty good for a start if it can be programmed like a home thermostat with a couple of on-off times through the day.

I'm OK with NG heating my water, but I would love to have a heat pump or two for home air heating. The radiant floor heating installed is poor.
 
After a few other scheduling issues, I finally brought my 2016 leaf in for the dealer to perform the 'additional diagnostics' they said I needed the first time. They called me a few hours later and said I had been immediately approved for a new battery and no further testing was necessary??? Guess it depends on WHO gets the diagnostics, or wherever they send all that information to at Nissan? In any case --- battery scheduled for replacement on Thursday. Hope to find out some details on the battery I am going to get --- new? used? I just expect to have to repeat this process in another 2 years or so ---- we are not going to change how we drive, and Florida summers don't seem to be getting any cooler. It will be nice to have the higher range again though, I miss that.
 
Maggie said:
After a few other scheduling issues, I finally brought my 2016 leaf in for the dealer to perform the 'additional diagnostics' they said I needed the first time. They called me a few hours later and said I had been immediately approved for a new battery and no further testing was necessary??? Guess it depends on WHO gets the diagnostics, or wherever they send all that information to at Nissan? In any case --- battery scheduled for replacement on Thursday. Hope to find out some details on the battery I am going to get --- new? used? I just expect to have to repeat this process in another 2 years or so ---- we are not going to change how we drive, and Florida summers don't seem to be getting any cooler. It will be nice to have the higher range again though, I miss that.

you will get a new battery.

let us know if you notice anything different especially QC charging speed.
 
March update. 244 GID's at full charge. 53.13AH SOH = 66.85% Hx = 58.50% 40700 mi. 86 L3 charges. 778 L2 charges. February saw a small drop in capacity but the the biggest difference is in the L3 charge rate. Lower initial charge rate (85 Amps vs 106 Amps when new) and faster tapering of charge rate as it charges the battery. On a L3 charger, charge rate starts to taper off at about 80% and by 90% is down to 16 amps or less. I can no longer get to a full charge in 30 minutes even with a 50% charge when I start. L2 at home charges to 100% no problem. All the cells are in good balance (15 mv typically) so there's no bad cell causing this. I have to think that the BMS is limiting the charge rate.

I'm just above the range to lose the fourth bar. As the weather warms up here, I expect to lose the fourth bar in April or May. I'd be surprised if it holds out until June. So much for it being a 100,000 mile battery. As it stands now I end up having to stop somewhere 2-3 times a week to add enough charge to make sure I can get home safely.
 
Just passed 17k on my '17 S. Haven't LeafSpied yet, but I've still got all my bars. Can't really tell if I've lost range since it's winter here.

It is *totally insane* that some people have had packs at 8 bars with my mileage!
 
Hi, I have a 2016 Leaf SV (leased in July 2016) and have about 22K miles. Last week, I lost my 3rd capacity bar!! I still have 16 months to go on my 3-year lease. Wondering what's the best option for me going forward. I didn't take it to the dealership yet to figure out what's going on.
My Atlanta daily commute is 60 miles and I go to work 4 days a week. I use a level-2 charger each night.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
 
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