Range question

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corwin

Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
20
Location
Soquel, CA
Hey owners,
My commute to work one way is 70 miles, ending at about the same elevation as I start, but along the way, there's 5 or 6 hills of 100-200 feet up/down and then at the 60 mile mark, I have a 900 foot climb and descent. The majority of the drive (45 miles) is a nice two lane road from Santa Cruz to Half Moon Bay and I plan to cruise at about 62 mph. This is a "one way" question as I have several days to recharge before heading home.

I know that if this was all flat, it'd be no problem, but I've seen remarks about hills killing the range. Now I'm more than a little worried. Any educated guesses on how close to (or over) the limit I'll be?
Corwin
(March delivery date)
 
corwin said:
Hey owners,
My commute to work one way is 70 miles, ending at about the same elevation as I start, but along the way, there's 5 or 6 hills of 100-200 feet up/down and then at the 60 mile mark, I have a 900 foot climb and descent. The majority of the drive (45 miles) is a nice two lane road from Santa Cruz to Half Moon Bay and I plan to cruise at about 62 mph. This is a "one way" question as I have several days to recharge before heading home.

I know that if this was all flat, it'd be no problem, but I've seen remarks about hills killing the range. Now I'm more than a little worried. Any educated guesses on how close to (or over) the limit I'll be?
Corwin
(March delivery date)
Depends on the regen. Use eco mode. If you can decelerate and descend without using the mechanical brakes you will probably get ~80% of the energy back. You should expect to indicate ~5% less range/state of charge for every 1,000 feet you climb. If it gets tight, you can slow down. Headwind, rain, climate control, lights/defrost/wipers and impatient drivers on 17 will also cost you.

Driven conservatively, you will make it. But as the batteries age, it will get tougher.
 
KeiJidosha said:
Depends on the regen. Use eco mode. If you can decelerate and descend without using the mechanical brakes you will probably get ~80% of the energy back. You should expect to indicate ~5% less range/state of charge for every 1,000 feet you climb. If it gets tight, you can slow down. Headwind, rain, climate control, lights/defrost/wipers and impatient drivers on 17 will also cost you.

Driven conservatively, you will make it. But as the batteries age, it will get tougher.


We really haven't seen any reports yet at the efficiency of the regen capture. I'm hoping we will see someone take on a several mile long grade and make some measurements. Please!
 
With about 6 x 200 = about 1100 feet, and adding 900 => 2000 feet of "climb". Without any Regen recovery, a 1000-foot climb is approximarely like 5 miles. So, a 10 mile "loss". But, with careful Regen, you MIGHT get 50% back, so maybe only a 5 mile "penalty".

So, your 70-mile trip becomes 75 to 80 miles. Doable if you do not go too fast and the battery pack has not lost too much capacity.

Plan B:
Any chaging opportunities along the route?
 
I could probably go to half moon bay from redwood city and back, and then look at the amount of regen I got each way once the data gets in carwings.
If you're willing to not go over 55mph, I'd guess that you'll be perfectly fine.
 
if you are talking about highway 1, that is a tough road to drive. its nothing but hills up and down and traffic will usually not allow you to vary your speed that much.

i think you will need to drive a bit slower. take advantage of the downhills as much as possible. you can extend range by reducing the amount of power needed to climb the hills by building up speed while descending. your objective is to use gravity as much as possible.
 
gudy said:
I could probably go to half moon bay from redwood city and back, and then look at the amount of regen I got each way once the data gets in carwings.
If you're willing to not go over 55mph, I'd guess that you'll be perfectly fine.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Olivier- I'd love to hear the results from this trip :mrgreen:
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
if you are talking about highway 1, that is a tough road to drive. its nothing but hills up and down and traffic will usually not allow you to vary your speed that much.

Actually Hwy 1 between Santa Cruz and Half Moon Bay is a very easy drive with teeny hills and at 6:30am there's very little traffic. I think the key fact so far is the 1000 ft climb equals 5 miles. I should have good regen down the large hill (Hwy 92) as either direction is a good slope for regen. Thus, I will remain hopefully optimistic.

Thanks for the input.
-Corwin
 
The first time you do it, I'd be conservative, drive slowly, no cruise control, no climate control, eco mode, etc. You're sure to make it, no problem at all. From there, you can modify your driving, etc. I'm sure with various adjustments and experience, your range anxiety will dissipate completely and you'll end up getting to work quickly and comfortably.

What a great drive that is from Santa Cruz to Half Moon Bay! Hey, when does the convertible LEAF come out?!! Now that'd be the ticket!!
 
corwin said:
Actually Hwy 1 between Santa Cruz and Half Moon Bay is a very easy drive with teeny hills and at 6:30am there's very little traffic. I think the key fact so far is the 1000 ft climb equals 5 miles. I should have good regen down the large hill (Hwy 92) as either direction is a good slope for regen. Thus, I will remain hopefully optimistic.
I'm not familiar with the route you're taking but 1000 feet is 10 elevation changes between 50 and 150 feet. Along the coast you're constantly going up and down so while there may not be any huge hills all those relatively small elevation gains and losses will add up. You might have a couple thousand feet of elevation gain and loss between Santa Cruz and Half Moon Bay even though there aren't any real hills along that route. You can assume for every 1000 feet of hill climbing you'll need about 1.5 kWh, so, if you're thinking that the Leaf can go 100 miles on 22 kWh, then you'd lose more like 7 miles for every 1000 feet of up and down. Regen might get you 2 of those miles back but not more.

You might want to go on Google Earth and plot the elevation gains and losses along your route and see how small elevation gains and losses can add up.
 
Anyone wondering why weight is a big deal on an EV now? The focus is a weight Pig but it seems no one has caught on to that yet.
 
It sounds like you're starting in Santa Cruz, going up Hwy 1, then at the end climbing 92 to end at your workplace. Go home the opposite direction. Several days at work = fire dept. is my guess. Sounds like the husband of an ex-FBI agent I know, only I think he starts in Aptos. Anyway, I would be very leery about this if I have the scenario right. Hwy 92 is steep coming out of Half Moon Bay and you would be right at the limit of your charge. You don't want to be creeping with commute cars behind you. Is there a Nissan dealer selling the Leaf in either Half Moon Bay or Santa Cruz? You should definitely identify charging stations along the way before the first attempt and call ahead to make sure one is available if necessary.
 
The EveryTrail site also shows a very nice route map,
speed graph, and elevation profile.
It also allows uploading a series of (lon, lat, time) points to share with others.

I wonder if the LEAF's Nav "track" or "trace" function (if any) can store and off-load such a log?

See www.EveryTrail.com
 
Jimmydreams said:
If anyone is interested, I'm posting a spreadsheet of my daily drive, how many miles, average mi/kW, how many kWh go into the EVSE each night, etc.

Enjoy.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub...SzdvazBlNHRlZDNDY2VRUlFfNkE&hl=en&output=html
I'm having a bit of trouble reading the spread sheet because of the double rows resulting from recording each direction of your trip. Might be easier to read if you just record numbers in between plug-ins.

Can you add a column which shows the plug to wheels miles / kWh number? Looks like you're getting about 3 mi / kWh from the plug...
 
Jimmydreams said:
If anyone is interested, I'm posting a spreadsheet of my daily drive, how many miles, average mi/kW, how many kWh go into the EVSE each night, etc.

Enjoy.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub...SzdvazBlNHRlZDNDY2VRUlFfNkE&hl=en&output=html
Very interesting data. A few comments on correlation, or lack thereof. I am having trouble getting your data into my speadsheet, so pardon my formatting.

"bars remaining" at destination =2:
EVSE kwh 18.9, 22.1, 25.5
bars=4:
EVSE kwh 18.9

Any thoughts about why these don't correlate very well ? It would seem you really don't have a very accurate reading of how much battery charge you have left. A little scary.

Have you tried charging to 80% ?
How convenient or inconvenient is it to charge to say 90% ? Would you have to control it via charging time? I would like to have that flexibility to maximize battery life on shorter trips.
 
garygid said:
drees said:
Looks like you're getting about 3 mi / kWh from the plug...
You mean 3 miles per kWh, right?
(or 3 mpe)
Is there something wrong with the way drees stated it? I often use the same format. "per" is logically equivalent to a ratio, which is often expressed as a fraction. The units fall as they should, and the math works out. For example, 3 mi / kWh = 6 mi /2 kWh.
 
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