Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 747
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:19 pm

EVforRobert wrote:Saw a 2016 SV with 54K miles for sale on CarMax. It had 4 bar loss. Mfg on 1/16 registered in Tustin, CA.
This one? https://www.carmax.com/car/15642756

They're asking $16k! Does carmax even allow haggling?
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

SageBrush
Posts: 4930
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:06 am

This is yet another example of car dealers pricing the car by the model year and cosmetic condition. The battery condition is not taken into account.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:08 am

Warranty replacement battery seems assumed in the price.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

jonemyers
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:49 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 419731

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:13 am

Insideevs.com has an article on 30kWh battery degradation. https://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-30-kw ... -kwh-pack/
Personally I have a 2013 S w/QC at 46,000+ miles that still has 12 bars of capacity but it has been located in the Portland Oregon area since new. I purchased it used and make sure to park it in the shade in the summer and only charge it to around 85% to 90% overnight. My next EV will have a active thermal management system and longer range.

GRA
Posts: 12071
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:38 pm

^^^
Analysis of 1382 measures of battery State of Health (SoH) from 283 Nissan Leafs (“Leaf/s”), manufactured between 2011 and 2017, has detected a faster rate of decline in this measure of energy-holding capacity for 30 kWh variants.

At two years of age, the mean rate of decline of SoH of 30 kWh Leafs was 9.9% per annum (95% uncertainty interval of 8.7% to 11.1%; n = 82). This was around three times the rate of decline of 24 kWh Leafs which at two years averaged 3.1% per annum (95% uncertainty interval of 2.9% to 3.3%; n = 201).

For both variants there was evidence for an increasing rate of decline as they aged, although this was much more pronounced in the 30 kWh Leafs. Higher use of rapid DC charging was associated with a small decrease in SoH. Additionally, while 24 kWh cars with greater distances travelled showed a higher SoH, in 30 kWh cars there was a reduction in SoH observed in cars that had travelled further.

The 30 kWh Leafs sourced from United Kingdom showed slower initial decline than those from Japan, but the rate of decline was similar at two years of age. . . .

If the high rate of decline in battery capacity that we observed in the first 2.3 years of a 30 kWh Leaf’s lifetime were to continue, the financial and environmental benefits of this model may be significantly eroded. Despite 30 kWh Leafs accounting for only 14% of all light battery electric vehicles registered for use on New Zealand roads at the end of February 2018, there is also the potential for the relatively poor performance of this specific model to undermine electric vehicle uptake more generally unless remedies can be found. . . .
Lots of graphs.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

EVforRobert
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:51 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Sep 2015
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:50 pm

9.35% per year loss for my 30 kWh Leaf S using starting and ending AHr and days owned. 13.37% total loss.

I bought the car the day it rolled off the truck partially charged and they let me use leaf spy pro to confirm a good battery.

I thought Nissan would build on the improvements they made for the 2015 24 kWh battery to make the 30 kWh battery even better.

Haven't lost a bar yet so as Bill Murray said, "I've got that going for me."
2015 SV LED + Quickcharge returned
2016 S30 returned
2019 BOLT EV LT

webeleafowners
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:52 am

Good morning all. I know you guys collect data for these things so I’ll put in my observations. Our 2016 SV just turned two years old. I haven’t done a full charge for awhile so I thought I would do one last night. It is 4 degrees celcius so not sure how that effects the results but a full charge this morning is 175 km range. This time last year in similar conditions was 184 km and when we got it was close to 190 so looks like some degradation but not too bad. Still 12 bars but get the impression from this thread that the first bar will probably go this year. Because of the kind of commuting we do the guess-o-meter is actually pretty accurate for us. I do notice the range comes up a bit when the temps come up. Maybe 10 km ish. Overall we love the car and have had no problems. Nissan called us last week to come in for its first service. Last year they just did a free tire rotation. For what it’s worth I would consider this a cooler climate except for three months of summer where days routinely hit 38 C. We do about 6 to 10 fast charges per year. Mostly level 1 and 2 charging at home. I have to keep the car around 70 percent because of unexpected road trips so i keep it at 60 to 80 percent a lot. Low mileage. 10 k ish. 3 months of the winter the car is not driven and sits at 60 percent. This year during that entire three months it lost 2 percent of charge.

I enjoy reading this forum. A lot of folks here with a lot of leaf knowledge. Hope this non technical info is useful.

John.
2020 Model 3 Tesla. AWD with FSD. Deep metallic blue. Our daily driver.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh Culis Red. Sold. Was my daily driver. Loved that car.
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

Wiredantz
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:13 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2015
Location: Los ANgeles, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:18 pm

Just report in:

Bought my 30KW leaf Nov, 2015.
Just lose my Second bar, at 17,025miles.


28 months of ownership 2 bars loss.

Levenkay
Gold Member
Posts: 524
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:01 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2018
Leaf Number: 308382
Location: Portland, OR

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:50 pm

Wiredantz wrote:Just report in:

Bought my 30KW leaf Nov, 2015.
Just lose my Second bar, at 17,025miles.


28 months of ownership 2 bars loss.
Hashtag FFS!!! In order for your data to be even remotely useful, you need to provide more background information. You don't even hint at what color your LEAF is!

By way of comparison, I bought my 30kWh LEAF in mid-December of 2015, have driven it 18200 miles, and have negligible degradation (no bars dropped, and about the same 100% GOM range as I recall when new). It's white.

Wiredantz
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:13 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2015
Location: Los ANgeles, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:07 pm

Just ordered leaf spy... Driving a Nissan Pearl Blue in los angeles bought it with 3 miles on it Late Nov 2015....

have driven my nissan leaf From los angeles to North tahoe.. to San Francisco..... and back home to los angeles... Just once

just ordered my leaf spy adapter so will be able to get you more information...

Just lost my second bar yesterday, lost my first bar at 18 months

280 GIDS 76.7%
21.7kwh Remain SOC 977%
Last edited by Wiredantz on Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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