cwerdna
Posts: 10411
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:03 pm

Wiredantz wrote:Just report in:

Bought my 30KW leaf Nov, 2015.
Just lose my Second bar, at 17,025miles.


28 months of ownership 2 bars loss.
Thanks for the info. Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not "KW". Pre-2018 Leaf has an 80 kW motor.

Levenkay is probably probably asking you to update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab. That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

I've asked for years for MNL to require the location field be filled out, to no avail. :(

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 10411
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:05 pm

webeleafowners wrote:Good morning all. I know you guys collect data for these things so I’ll put in my observations. Our 2016 SV just turned two years old. I haven’t done a full charge for awhile so I thought I would do one last night. It is 4 degrees celcius so not sure how that effects the results but a full charge this morning is 175 km range. This time last year in similar conditions was 184 km and when we got it was close to 190 so looks like some degradation but not too bad. Still 12 bars but get the impression from this thread that the first bar will probably go this year. Because of the kind of commuting we do the guess-o-meter is actually pretty accurate for us. I do notice the range comes up a bit when the temps come up. Maybe 10 km ish...
The GOM is worthless for determining battery condition.

Leaf Spy data and the # of capacity bars visible (very coarse metric) are the only things of use here.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 14662
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:49 pm

GOM readings can help for people who tend to drive the same route daily or regularly for years, once adjusted for weather. Mine used to regularly show 93 miles when the car was young. Now it shows 83 or less under the same conditions.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 10411
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:26 am

^^^
That's a big problem. The weather (temp, rain or snow) in addition to heater/HVAC usage can have a significant effect, besides changes in driving habits or deviations from routes such as due to detours, side trips, etc. And, tire pressure differences will affect efficiency.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

webeleafowners
Posts: 1071
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:25 am

cwerdna wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:Good morning all. I know you guys collect data for these things so I’ll put in my observations. Our 2016 SV just turned two years old. I haven’t done a full charge for awhile so I thought I would do one last night. It is 4 degrees celcius so not sure how that effects the results but a full charge this morning is 175 km range. This time last year in similar conditions was 184 km and when we got it was close to 190 so looks like some degradation but not too bad. Still 12 bars but get the impression from this thread that the first bar will probably go this year. Because of the kind of commuting we do the guess-o-meter is actually pretty accurate for us. I do notice the range comes up a bit when the temps come up. Maybe 10 km ish...
The GOM is worthless for determining battery condition.

Leaf Spy data and the # of capacity bars visible (very coarse metric) are the only things of use here.
I kinda thought so but figured I would throw it in anyway. I don’t have leaf spy and won’t be getting it but I still feel my range has dropped a bit. Hopefully that 12 Th bar will hang in there for another year. :).
2020 Model 3 Tesla. AWD with FSD. Deep metallic blue. Wifes daily driver.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh Culis Red. My daily driver.
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:27 am

Nissan makes a statement about 30-kWh battery degradation:
Nissan wrote:Nissan is aware that a limited number of customers have expressed concerns with the previous generation of the Nissan LEAF 30-kWh battery.

LEAF owners are some of our most devoted customers.

We take their concerns seriously, and have technical experts currently investigating the issues raised.
If that doesn't sound familiar, it should:
Carla Bailo, then Senior Vice President, Research & Development – Nissan Americas, in an open letter to the LEAF community on September 22, 2012 wrote:A small number of Nissan LEAF owners in Arizona are experiencing a greater than average battery capacity loss...
Of course we now know that the problem with the original LEAF was not limited to "a small number of LEAF owners in Arizona" and we have a strong indication from what has been posted in this thread that the problem with the 30-kWh battery is likely even more widespread.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4776
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:57 am

I wish they would just buy them back and scrap them (or do whatever they want with them). Better for everyone involved.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

johnlocke
Posts: 594
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:56 pm

Apr status report. 241 GID's, 52.70 AH, SOH =66.31%, Hx = 58.08%. 42299 miles. 94 L3 charges, 812 L2 charges. With 3 bars gone already, I'm expecting to lose the 4th bar over the summer probably in July. Oddly enough, increased DCFC charging hasn't seemed to affect anything, nor has L2 charging every time I get home (in case I need to go out again that day). I figure the 4th bar should drop somewhere between 60-63% SOH. I am DCFC'ing 2-3 times a week just to be sure I can get home after running errands. DCFC now starts to taper off the charge rate over 65-70%. Also the charge rate starts a lower value (85-90 amps) then it used to (106 amps when new). At 90% the rate is down to 20 amps. This started after the 3rd bar dropped.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

jbuntz
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:41 am
Delivery Date: 17 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 303765
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:31 pm

johnlocke wrote:Apr status report. 241 GID's, 52.70 AH, SOH =66.31%, Hx = 58.08%. 42299 miles. 94 L3 charges, 812 L2 charges. With 3 bars gone already, I'm expecting to lose the 4th bar over the summer probably in July. Oddly enough, increased DCFC charging hasn't seemed to affect anything, nor has L2 charging every time I get home (in case I need to go out again that day). I figure the 4th bar should drop somewhere between 60-63% SOH. I am DCFC'ing 2-3 times a week just to be sure I can get home after running errands. DCFC now starts to taper off the charge rate over 65-70%. Also the charge rate starts a lower value (85-90 amps) then it used to (106 amps when new). At 90% the rate is down to 20 amps. This started after the 3rd bar dropped.
For what I have recorded so far it looks like the 4th bar drops in the 55-60 SOH range. We can only hope it is sooner. I am already tired of the shortened range.
Mfg 11/15 Del 12/16 TX 2016 SL 30kWh,
Date Bar MI GID Ahr SOH
05/17 12 05175 324 70.75 89
08/17 11 09245 282 61.68 77
10/17 10 12000 260 57.22 71
01/18 09 15329 244 53.72 68
06/20 08 21716 230 50.41 63
06/27 11 22047 296 66.01 83 Aftr Updt

lorenfb
Posts: 2393
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:47 pm

In an attempt to understand battery parameters, e.g. chemistries, in Leaf batteries (24/30/40 kWh) over the years, a determination
of the battery resistance for these batteries would be very helpful. Since not only does ambient temperature contribute to battery
degradation, but so does internal battery power loss the result of the battery's internal resistance while charging and driving.
The link provided below explains how easily battery resistance can be determined using the procedure for 2018 Leaf as an example.
So if some 30 kWh Leaf owners could spend a few minutes when a QC is performed, it would be greatly appreciated.

http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 80#p523737
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

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