2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Wiredantz said:
Just report in:

Bought my 30KW leaf Nov, 2015.
Just lose my Second bar, at 17,025miles.


28 months of ownership 2 bars loss.
Thanks for the info. Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not "KW". Pre-2018 Leaf has an 80 kW motor.

Levenkay is probably probably asking you to update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab. That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

I've asked for years for MNL to require the location field be filled out, to no avail. :(
 
webeleafowners said:
Good morning all. I know you guys collect data for these things so I’ll put in my observations. Our 2016 SV just turned two years old. I haven’t done a full charge for awhile so I thought I would do one last night. It is 4 degrees celcius so not sure how that effects the results but a full charge this morning is 175 km range. This time last year in similar conditions was 184 km and when we got it was close to 190 so looks like some degradation but not too bad. Still 12 bars but get the impression from this thread that the first bar will probably go this year. Because of the kind of commuting we do the guess-o-meter is actually pretty accurate for us. I do notice the range comes up a bit when the temps come up. Maybe 10 km ish...
The GOM is worthless for determining battery condition.

Leaf Spy data and the # of capacity bars visible (very coarse metric) are the only things of use here.
 
GOM readings can help for people who tend to drive the same route daily or regularly for years, once adjusted for weather. Mine used to regularly show 93 miles when the car was young. Now it shows 83 or less under the same conditions.
 
^^^
That's a big problem. The weather (temp, rain or snow) in addition to heater/HVAC usage can have a significant effect, besides changes in driving habits or deviations from routes such as due to detours, side trips, etc. And, tire pressure differences will affect efficiency.
 
cwerdna said:
webeleafowners said:
Good morning all. I know you guys collect data for these things so I’ll put in my observations. Our 2016 SV just turned two years old. I haven’t done a full charge for awhile so I thought I would do one last night. It is 4 degrees celcius so not sure how that effects the results but a full charge this morning is 175 km range. This time last year in similar conditions was 184 km and when we got it was close to 190 so looks like some degradation but not too bad. Still 12 bars but get the impression from this thread that the first bar will probably go this year. Because of the kind of commuting we do the guess-o-meter is actually pretty accurate for us. I do notice the range comes up a bit when the temps come up. Maybe 10 km ish...
The GOM is worthless for determining battery condition.

Leaf Spy data and the # of capacity bars visible (very coarse metric) are the only things of use here.

I kinda thought so but figured I would throw it in anyway. I don’t have leaf spy and won’t be getting it but I still feel my range has dropped a bit. Hopefully that 12 Th bar will hang in there for another year. :).
 
Nissan makes a statement about 30-kWh battery degradation:
Nissan said:
Nissan is aware that a limited number of customers have expressed concerns with the previous generation of the Nissan LEAF 30-kWh battery.

LEAF owners are some of our most devoted customers.

We take their concerns seriously, and have technical experts currently investigating the issues raised.
If that doesn't sound familiar, it should:
Carla Bailo said:
A small number of Nissan LEAF owners in Arizona are experiencing a greater than average battery capacity loss...
Of course we now know that the problem with the original LEAF was not limited to "a small number of LEAF owners in Arizona" and we have a strong indication from what has been posted in this thread that the problem with the 30-kWh battery is likely even more widespread.
 
Apr status report. 241 GID's, 52.70 AH, SOH =66.31%, Hx = 58.08%. 42299 miles. 94 L3 charges, 812 L2 charges. With 3 bars gone already, I'm expecting to lose the 4th bar over the summer probably in July. Oddly enough, increased DCFC charging hasn't seemed to affect anything, nor has L2 charging every time I get home (in case I need to go out again that day). I figure the 4th bar should drop somewhere between 60-63% SOH. I am DCFC'ing 2-3 times a week just to be sure I can get home after running errands. DCFC now starts to taper off the charge rate over 65-70%. Also the charge rate starts a lower value (85-90 amps) then it used to (106 amps when new). At 90% the rate is down to 20 amps. This started after the 3rd bar dropped.
 
johnlocke said:
Apr status report. 241 GID's, 52.70 AH, SOH =66.31%, Hx = 58.08%. 42299 miles. 94 L3 charges, 812 L2 charges. With 3 bars gone already, I'm expecting to lose the 4th bar over the summer probably in July. Oddly enough, increased DCFC charging hasn't seemed to affect anything, nor has L2 charging every time I get home (in case I need to go out again that day). I figure the 4th bar should drop somewhere between 60-63% SOH. I am DCFC'ing 2-3 times a week just to be sure I can get home after running errands. DCFC now starts to taper off the charge rate over 65-70%. Also the charge rate starts a lower value (85-90 amps) then it used to (106 amps when new). At 90% the rate is down to 20 amps. This started after the 3rd bar dropped.

For what I have recorded so far it looks like the 4th bar drops in the 55-60 SOH range. We can only hope it is sooner. I am already tired of the shortened range.
 
In an attempt to understand battery parameters, e.g. chemistries, in Leaf batteries (24/30/40 kWh) over the years, a determination
of the battery resistance for these batteries would be very helpful. Since not only does ambient temperature contribute to battery
degradation, but so does internal battery power loss the result of the battery's internal resistance while charging and driving.
The link provided below explains how easily battery resistance can be determined using the procedure for 2018 Leaf as an example.
So if some 30 kWh Leaf owners could spend a few minutes when a QC is performed, it would be greatly appreciated.

http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25519&start=80#p523737
 
berclese said:
berclese said:
samrovner said:
You and I are in the same boat, and I was hoping you were going to have better news today. I'm in Phoenix too, and this is my second LEAF. My 2013 SV didn't degrade like this at all. I agree with you about the car becoming worthless, and can't imagine what the range will be like when I finally lose my 4th bar. I read an article last night about contacting Nissan's Customer Support to start documenting this early, just to avoid headaches when it finally does qualify for replacement. I plan on calling them later today or tomorrow. Have you reached out to them yet?

I am under the suspicion that Nissan may have moved the SOH/capacity bar relationship for the 30 kWh battery. My car will likely drop it's second bar very soon. Have you taken your car in for the yearly battery check? That may help you in the long run (no pun intended). I have not contacted customer service. Please let us know how that goes.

UPDATE: I lost the second bar today. 237 GIDs AHr= 51.85 SOH= 65% HX= 65.88% 5899 miles.

UPDATE 2: I lost the 4th bar today at 7577 miles. GOM is still reporting range at 75 miles, but my actual range has been much lower. Off for a new battery on Monday. I can't wait to turn this leased vehicle in. Nissan really should consider pulling the Leaf from the Southwest.
 
berclese said:
berclese said:
berclese said:
I am under the suspicion that Nissan may have moved the SOH/capacity bar relationship for the 30 kWh battery. My car will likely drop it's second bar very soon. Have you taken your car in for the yearly battery check? That may help you in the long run (no pun intended). I have not contacted customer service. Please let us know how that goes.

UPDATE: I lost the second bar today. 237 GIDs AHr= 51.85 SOH= 65% HX= 65.88% 5899 miles.

UPDATE 2: I lost the 4th bar today at 7577 miles. GOM is still reporting range at 75 miles, but my actual range has been much lower. Off for a new battery on Monday. I can't wait to turn this leased vehicle in. Nissan really should consider pulling the Leaf from the Southwest.

Four bars at 7577 miles!! That's crazy. This new battery does suck big time. I am so glad that I have just a two-year lease but at this rate, I believe I'll be getting a new battery in last few months of my lease.
 
^^^
Wow, that's got to be a record low in terms of mileage at 4 bar loss.

Update to http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=521576#p521576

Seems like not many updates have been happening to http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss#Loss_of_four_battery_capacity_bars_.2833.75.25.29 and I don't see any 4 bar 2016 30 kWh losers there yet. (I'd do it if I find some free time...)

Here are links to the 30 kWh 4 bar losers I'm aware of, so far. Please chime if I'm missing any 30 kWh 4+ bar losers, made mistakes, double-counted someone, etc. I've included their initials or MNL user name to help avoid confusion or duplication.

1) bakermel1, Phoenix, AZ, Sep 2017:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=506782#p506782
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=506819#p506819
2) SB, Phoenix, AZ, Sep 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=506613#p506613
3) samrovner, Surprise, AZ, Nov 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=510024#p510024
4) LG, Chandler, AZ, Nov 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=512503#p512503
5) ST, Orlando, FL, Dec 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=514452#p514452
6) dfwpev aka Ron, Dallas, TX, Dec 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=514659#p514659
7) BB, Lake Buena Vista, FL, Dec 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=514929#p514929
8) slflores91, Las Vegas, NV, Oct/Nov 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=510772#p510772
9) CC, Highland, CA, Feb 2018: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1824559694281530/ - says he has a '16 SV built 10/15, delivered 5/16
10) LTLFTcomposite's family member, Orlando, FL, 18.7K miles, Feb 2018: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=519527#p519527 and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=520718#p520718
11) Maggie, Port St Lucie, FL, Feb 2018: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=519524#p519524
12) iPlug, Rocklin, CA, Feb 2018: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=520197#p520197
13) BB, Celebration, FL,10K miles, Mar 2018: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1859116594159173/
14) EVforRobert spotted, registered in Tustin, CA, 54K miles, unknown loss month: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=522691#p522691, likely http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=522718#p522718 at https://www.carmax.com/car/15642756
15) berclese, Chandler (?), AZ, Apr 2018: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=524011#p524011
 
I'm trying to picture six years from now when we're getting our fourth pack replacement. How many times can Nissan afford to replace these with the same faulty technology before it would be cheaper to just buy back the car?

I wasn't on the call but was told the person on the EV hotline gave the impression this pack replacement restarts the eight year clock. Pretty sure that's not right. Could be a little more call center training is needed there.

We're looking to get rid of this turkey but part of me wants to hold on to it just to see how this plays out. It would be a bummer to take a big loss on it only to have some "program" announced a month later.
 
I consider it highly unlikely that everyone in hot climates will see the same awful degradation, or even a large fraction. I don't mean to say that hot weather is not a problem -- it is. But the worse stories are that AND other things. My bet all along has been on poor quality control at the factory, and worse ever since Nissan sold. It's possible that the Chinese will improve things but that will take time and only occur if they plan to continue with the same tech.

Leave it to Nissan to take a bad situation and make it worse by dumping refurbs on the customers. Note: this has not happened yet, but I expect it.
 
SageBrush said:
I consider it highly unlikely that everyone in hot climates will see the same awful degradation, or even a large fraction.
I wonder why we would think that. Recognizing that people who aren't experiencing issues are less likely to speak up than those who are, are there *any* reports from 30kwh owners in warm climates who haven't experienced substantial capacity loss?
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
SageBrush said:
I consider it highly unlikely that everyone in hot climates will see the same awful degradation, or even a large fraction.
I wonder why we would think that. Recognizing that people who aren't experiencing issues are less likely to speak up than those who are, are there *any* reports from 30kwh owners in warm climates who haven't experienced substantial capacity loss?

"substantial" degradation is the LEAF battery in a nutshell; I was talking about 4 bar loss in under two years.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
I'm trying to picture six years from now when we're getting our fourth pack replacement. How many times can Nissan afford to replace these with the same faulty technology before it would be cheaper to just buy back the car?

One might hope that they improve(d) the 30kWh pack life to match the Lizard 24kWh pack life.


LTLFTcomposite said:
but part of me wants to hold on to it just to see how this plays out. It would be a bummer to take a big loss on it only to have some "program" announced a month later.

It would be a bummer to replace the pack, sell the car, and find out 6 years from now that the replacement pack is still doing well.
 
I sticking with my 2017 also..

First, I like it and don't want to buy another EV at the moment and secondly, I think if the packs degrade as rapidlly as it looks like they might, Nissan will have to do something about it. I suppose it's possible they can find enough cells to build refurb packs for all the 30kWh failures but I'd assume it will take cells from a 30kWh pack to make another 30kWh pack. And if a large percentage of them fail, just selling refurb packs might not cover the demand. I'd be slightly bummed driving around with 65% capacity waiting for the 4th bar to drop but the prospect of that isn't enough to make me want to sell the car. My biggest concern is the resale value will plummet if/when it comes common knowledge that the 2016/2017 Leaf has 'issues'. Still, since I'm planning to keep the car for a long time, that isn't a deal-breaker either.
 
Back
Top