pointlomadave
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 9:04 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2013

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:16 am

Our 2017 Leaf s purchased in March 2017 just hit 22k miles and still no bar loss. No Leaf Spy so can't give numbers. We're located in San Diego a couple blocks from the water so climates are reasonably moderate and car is generally driven with a few miles of the coast where things are cooler. Car is rarely charged to 100% unless we are going to be driving it immed. LOTS of QC. It is my opinion that charging to 100% is more likely the culprit and not QC.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 731
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:34 am

pointlomadave wrote:Our 2017 Leaf s purchased in March 2017 just hit 22k miles and still no bar loss. No Leaf Spy so can't give numbers. We're located in San Diego a couple blocks from the water so climates are reasonably moderate and car is generally driven with a few miles of the coast where things are cooler. Car is rarely charged to 100% unless we are going to be driving it immed. LOTS of QC. It is my opinion that charging to 100% is more likely the culprit and not QC.
You need to pull the leaf spy stats, because all other info is insufficient in detail to make any kind of conclusion.

I'm also SoCal, and my leaf spy stats are in my signature. I haven't lost any bars either, but the leaf spy stats tell a different story.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:03 am

pointlomadave wrote: It is my opinion that charging to 100% is more likely the culprit and not QC.
Since your battery may be approaching 20% capacity loss without you knowing, I find your conclusions unfounded.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

lorenfb
Posts: 2394
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:33 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
pointlomadave wrote:Our 2017 Leaf s purchased in March 2017 just hit 22k miles and still no bar loss. No Leaf Spy so can't give numbers. We're located in San Diego a couple blocks from the water so climates are reasonably moderate and car is generally driven with a few miles of the coast where things are cooler. Car is rarely charged to 100% unless we are going to be driving it immed. LOTS of QC. It is my opinion that charging to 100% is more likely the culprit and not QC.
You need to pull the leaf spy stats, because all other info is insufficient in detail to make any kind of conclusion.

I'm also SoCal, and my leaf spy stats are in my signature. I haven't lost any bars either, but the leaf spy stats tell a different story.
Since you have been helpful in providing the forum data about your 30kWh Leaf and since you indicated your frequent use of QCs,
it would be helpful to supplement the 40kWh data Dave provided on his 2018 Leaf:
If those with a 30kWh Leaf who QC could complement the helpful data provided here; viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25519&start=90#p523924
by Dave's data gathering on his 2018 40kWh Leaf, i.e. internal battery resistance data, by performing the same type of test (about 10-15
seconds at the start of a QC), that would result in having battery data on all the Leaf batteries, 24/30/40 kWhs. If that test results in the
battery resistance of the 30 kWh battery being about the same as both the 24 & 40 kWh batteries ( ~ 50 - 60 mohms), then it could be
implied that the additional prolonged 30 kWh battery heat over time (like the 40 kWh) results from a higher battery thermal resistance
(lower heat conductance) to ambient, e.g. resulting from a higher density battery volume. This would help explain the higher battery
degradation some 30kWh Leaf owners have experienced over the 24 kWh battery, and what some 40 kWh Leaf owners will probably
have to confront over time, which in hindsight necessitated TMS more so as the battery density increased over the 24 kWh battery.
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 90#p523924
Thanks for your help.
Last edited by lorenfb on Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

pointlomadave
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 9:04 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2013

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:35 am

^^^I understand. Point being I've yet to lose my first capacity bar at 22k miles while others are reporting 3 bar loss. I know the first bar represents 15.5% capacity loss so yeah, I could be close or I may not be. Point being, at least my car is not in the category of high wear rate for the battery.

THis is my 2nd Leaf. 1st one I drove 56k miles. 1 bar lost at 31,500 on that one which was a 2013 with a 4/13 build date.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:19 am

pointlomadave wrote: I know the first bar represents 15.5% capacity loss .
The first bar has been inflated to ~ 20% in the 30 kWh LEAF
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 731
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:24 pm

lorenfb wrote:
Since you have been helpful in providing the forum data about your 30kWh Leaf and since you indicated your frequent use of QCs,
it would be helpful to supplement the 40kWh data Dave provided on his 2018 Leaf:
I actually don't QC regularly, but I'll see what I can do about doing one just to get those stats. Might take a few days though.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

lorenfb
Posts: 2394
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:00 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
Since you have been helpful in providing the forum data about your 30kWh Leaf and since you indicated your frequent use of QCs,
it would be helpful to supplement the 40kWh data Dave provided on his 2018 Leaf:
I actually don't QC regularly, but I'll see what I can do about doing one just to get those stats. Might take a few days though.
Thanks.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

eatsleafsandshoots
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:23 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Oct 2013
Location: Denver, CO

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:35 am

Just got to 20k on my '17 S, no bar loss in the foothills of Denver, CO.

I can do LeafSpy one better - actually driving the car from full to VLBW. When I do that, I'm seeing 8-10% in capacity degradation (used to be able to easily hit the EPA listed mileage, now I'm down to 92-90% of that).

I've QC'd about 30-40 times and charge to 100% regularly.

Phatcat73
Posts: 480
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:44 pm
Leaf Number: 401511
Location: Buffalo Grove, Il

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:14 pm

Bummer.... down to 90% SOH. 14k. Chicago weather. Seems that even a few summer months are enough to significantly degrade the battery. Glad I leased.

On the bright side I did get my Model 3 invite today... 3-6 week delivery
2018 Tesla Model 3 AWD
2017 Chevy Bolt
Retired: 2013 & 2016 SV;
Soon to be retired: 2015 S;
Solar Array: [url]https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/pv/ ... overview[l]

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