Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
techiefan said:
Just leads to third party options in the long run.
Somewhere between unlikely and not going to happen.

The most obvious barrier is that Nissan has to agree because they hold a software lock that prevents unauthorized battery replacement.
 
SageBrush said:
techiefan said:
Just leads to third party options in the long run.
Somewhere between unlikely and not going to happen.

The most obvious barrier is that Nissan has to agree because they hold a software lock that prevents unauthorized battery replacement.

You remove Nissan's VCU and BMS and substitute your own.
 
Lothsahn said:
estomax said:
Paying 1.5x the value of a degraded Leaf to fix the battery is insane... you can buy a whole 12 bar Leaf for 8500. there is still hope for the 2850$ refurbished battery that was announced in Japan. If that gets you back to 85-90% then i'd say its worth it.

That hope remains, although, for now, Nissan says that EPA regulations prevent bringing that battery to the US market. I have no idea what those regulations are, but I too hope that it will become available as well.

The regulation called excuses reign supreme
 
Nubo said:
SageBrush said:
techiefan said:
Just leads to third party options in the long run.
Somewhere between unlikely and not going to happen.

The most obvious barrier is that Nissan has to agree because they hold a software lock that prevents unauthorized battery replacement.

You remove Nissan's VCU and BMS and substitute your own.
Uh huh. That is the difference between possible and practical. These uninformed armchair opinions of just over the horizon, cheap and accessible 3rd party options are a disservice to the community.
 
SageBrush said:
Nubo said:
SageBrush said:
Somewhere between unlikely and not going to happen.

The most obvious barrier is that Nissan has to agree because they hold a software lock that prevents unauthorized battery replacement.

You remove Nissan's VCU and BMS and substitute your own.
Uh huh. That is the difference between possible and practical. These uninformed armchair opinions of just over the horizon, cheap and accessible 3rd party options are a disservice to the community.

I didn't say it was easy or cheap, but such devices are being developed and used, even if my opinion is "armchair" while yours is awesome and fully-informed.

http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=gevcu6
 
This news just confirms my decision to dump my 2011 Leaf a year ago (actually, I gave it to my nephew who lives in Seattle). Almost a year driving my used 2013 Tesla Model S, zero problems, no detectable battery capacity loss during the time I have owned it (was down about 5% from new at the time I bought it). Never going back to Nissan.
 
Nubo said:
I didn't say it was easy or cheap,
You are showing an open-sourced, Arduino based box for people to hack on as the path towards 3rd party, unauthorized battery replacement of the proprietary, locked Nissan pack ?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
SageBrush said:
Nubo said:
I didn't say it was easy or cheap,
You are showing an open-sourced, Arduino based box for people to hack on as the path towards 3rd party, unauthorized battery replacement of the proprietary, locked Nissan pack ?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The statement I replied to asserted "Nissan has to agree because they hold a software lock...". I am pointing out that such a lock can be circumvented by providing an independent controller and letting Nissan's software take a hike. It can and does work.

Whether or not it's feasible from an economic or liability standpoint I don't know and make no claims. However, Nissan's agreement is not required. The technical aspect is solvable.
 
Nubo said:
I am pointing out that such a lock can be circumvented by providing an independent controller and letting Nissan's software take a hike. It can and does work.
Someone has a running LEAF with no limitations using this box ?

Color me skeptical since the advert itself says that out of the box it can only control two specific motors and theoretically others.

So the current state of affairs is this:
Replace the battery
Replace the BMS
Replace the Controller
Replace the motor
Write the code to control the motor

No problemo. 3rd Party battery replacements coming any day now. ;)
 
Disappointing business practice. My 2014 (purchased last year) should last until it's paid off, but I won't be replacing the battery if these prices hold. I also won't be buying a new Nissan Leaf. The price of the replacement battery is approaching $300/kWh (before labor). That's absurd.

The cost of the battery replacement pretty much wipes out the fuel savings for the previous period of ownership.
 
Lothsahn said:
I just called Nissan about a replacement battery because my 2011 Nissan leaf is down to 8 bars and I only get about 35 miles on a charge. I was informed that the battery replacement cost is now $7000 plus labor and taxes (up from $5499). This means replacement costs are around $8500. ...
I just called Nissan's EV #, and what I was told that :

1) The pack price has increased from $6,500 to 7,500.

2) The not really-a-core-charge (the mandatory return allowance) decreased from $1,500 to $1,000.

Since the second statement clearly seems wrong, I think you will need to get a written estimate from a dealer to find the true cost, and end the confusion.

In the past, many have reported discounts quoted from list price, but I have no idea if any dealers ever have come through with lower-than-list prices.
 
webb14leafs said:
The price of the replacement battery is approaching $300/kWh (before labor). That's absurd.
Over $300 a kWh
Not including installation costs

For another POS battery that lasts ~ 5 years or 60k miles
About $130 a month instead of sending the car to the junkyard. That does not sound terrible, just not great for a local only car.
Or about 13 cents a mile to keep running the car. Again, not terrible but not great.

The real pain was to whomever paid the new car price, and the negative comments about the replacement cost mostly reflect acknowledgement that they are not getting a break after paying so much up front.
 
This is extremely disappointing news. This simply means that Nissan does not want to supply replacement batteries for Nissan Leafs. It would make absolutely no sense for someone to replace a battery on a Leaf which has battery problems. I just looked up the KBB value of a 2012 SV. $6,736. Six to seven year old cars should not be disposable.

What a shame. I bought a 2014 SL 6 months ago. You could almost think the car is new. Seems very well built, no rattles or issues. I love it. The thought that just 4 years from now, the car might not be usable and not able to be economically fixed is disturbing.

I think this is a HUGE issue for Nissan. It seems that battery degradation is not an issue for Tesla or GM. So, this means that if you buy a Tesla, or a Bolt, you should be confident that the battery will not degrade too much for maybe 10-15 years? Based on Nissan's track record, it seems that you should expect that your battery will be significantly degraded within 5-7 years, and can plan that the car will not have a usable life beyond 10 years? It seems that the 30kwh batteries from the 2016 and 2017 models are actually showing WORSE degredation than the older ones, and I have not seen assurances that the 2018 batteries have changed significantly. This would PREVENT me from buying a 2018 Leaf, or recommending it to people I know.

Part of the value of buying a car is the potential resale value. Resale values for 2011-2017 Leafs are terrible for two reasons: 1) the funky looks, and 2) range and battery degredation. With the range and battery issues being a huge factor. If I buy a 2018 Bolt today with 238 miles of range, if I plan on selling it in 4 years, it will probably have about 220 miles of range probably? If I buy a 2018 Leaf today with 150 miles of range, after 4 years what will the range be? 120 miles? So, if I spend $38,000 on Bolt, maybe the value in 4 years is $20,000? And if I spend $34,000 on a Leaf, maybe the value in 4 years is $13,000?

Bad batteries make the value of New and used Leafs terrible.
 
SageBrush said:
webb14leafs said:
The price of the replacement battery is approaching $300/kWh (before labor). That's absurd.
Over $300 a kWh
Not including installation costs

For another POS battery that lasts ~ 5 years or 60k miles
About $130 a month instead of sending the car to the junkyard. That does not sound terrible, just not great for a local only car.
Or about 13 cents a mile to keep running the car. Again, not terrible but not great.

The real pain was to whomever paid the new car price, and the negative comments about the replacement cost mostly reflect acknowledgement that they are not getting a break after paying so much up front.

True this is the early-adopter premium on display. This kinda' crap will not fly once EVs become mainstream. But it's also true that there's no reason in the world why Nissan couldn't have generalized the vehicle controller to accept 24, 30, 40 kWH and beyond, and kept the connectors compatible between model years. Should have been one of the items on the cocktail napkin.
 
Nubo said:
But it's also true that there's no reason in the world why Nissan couldn't have generalized the vehicle controller to accept 24, 30, 40 kWH and beyond, and kept the connectors compatible between model years. Should have been one of the items on the cocktail napkin.
There's exactly one reason: Nissan is in the business of building and selling new cars.

They really don't want to help us refurbish and enhance our used LEAFs. I think it would have been incredible had they made 40kWh packs available for old LEAFs - they'd really show their support for EVs as a forward-looking purchase. But doing so just cuts into new car sales, and that's probably all they really care about.

(my 4 year old 2013 is still pristine on the inside and (mostly) outside, and continues to drive and handle flawlessly. it is really a well-built car)
 
jlv said:
...There's exactly one reason: Nissan is in the business of building and selling new cars.

They really don't want to help us refurbish and enhance our used LEAFs. I think it would have been incredible had they made 40kWh packs available for old LEAFs - they'd really show their support for EVs as a forward-looking purchase. But doing so just cuts into new car sales, and that's probably all they really care about.

(my 4 year old 2013 is still pristine on the inside and (mostly) outside, and continues to drive and handle flawlessly. it is really a well-built car)
And so is my eight-capacity-bar 2011, and I expect somebody to be driving it for many years to come.

I can't get too worked up about the ~$1,000 (?) price hike for a pack trade, since I wasn't planning on it anyway.

Seriously, how many would pay Nissan even $5 k for the pack swap, if all you got was back up to ~21.6 available kWh?

How many 2011-12 owners would, knowing the same pack would give you considerably more range, in the more efficient 2013-16 "24 kWh" LEAFS?

I still hope an aftermarket product enters the market, but to sell in quantity, it will need to be either higher capacity, or much lower price, than what Nissan offers.

The market problem, of course, is that $7,500 FTC essentially more than pays the manufacturing cost for 24 kWh's worth of new batteries, if a qualified buyer agrees to take the rest of the new BEV with it.

It's always hard to get buyers to pay for something, that somebody else is willing to pay you to take...

By the time my LEAF pack hit's 10 years old (and the FTC expires) it will still probably do 45 or 50 miles, right lane on the freeway, and much more distance at lower speeds, and still be a very good student or grampa car, unless something expensive other than the pack fails before then.

At which point, the OE pack will probably be the most valuable item to part-out...
 
edatoakrun said:
I can't get too worked up about the ~$1,000 (?) price hike for a pack trade ....

Hmm ... I count $1500
edatoakrun said:
1) The pack price has increased from $6,500 to 7,500.
2) The not really-a-core-charge (the mandatory return allowance) decreased from $1,500 to $1,000.
 
It's unfortunate that the company which did more than anyone to bring about mass market EV's will not have much of a role in that market. A brand new LEAF, disposable after a few years, makes little sense. A used LEAF with reasonably good battery could be a good deal, but only so long as someone else keeps buying new LEAFs to sell used. Maybe the economics of leasing a LEAF still make sense, but if so I can't understand why Nissan would set its lease prices and residuals in favor of customers while setting punitive maintenance prices for owners.

I guessed this was coming a couple of years ago when Nissan declined to offer a true (pro rata) warranty on their supposedly improved battery, indicating that they still had no confidence in their design. All I could recommend to friends now is to buy a brand with active battery cooling, which is to say almost anything except Nissan.

PS - My LEAF is great and I'll enjoy it until it reaches its expiration date. I just wish the pioneer would stay in the game.
 
walterbays said:
PS - My LEAF is great and I'll enjoy it until it reaches its expiration date. I just wish the pioneer would stay in the game.
Sale of the battery factory told the tale.
 
Great discussion here on the long term value of the Leaf. Our family had leased a 2013 Leaf and then had to return it early when we moved down to the Bay Area from Canada. Now after paying close to $4/gallon for our SUV we’re looking at a used Leaf as our around town car.

But what to do? I was originally looking for a 2013-2014 Leaf with <40K miles on it for around $9,500. But what will that car be worth in 3 year and 25K miles from now? I’m nervous it could be worh next to nothing if the battery can only do ~40 miles at a time.

Now I’m considering paying a bit more ($12-$13K for a 2015 with less than 20K miles) in the hope I can sell it for $9k in 3 years.

I’m not sure which is the best strategy or if we should buy a Leaf at all. But we really fell in love with our first Leaf and would love to have that EV experience again.

Sorry to hijack the thread but this exact topic is one I had been turning over in my head.
 
Back
Top