2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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webeleafowners said:
So, I am not following. Can someone summarize.

* Am I to understand that there is a recall type campaign that somehow affects the BMS?

* Is the degradation on the 2016 batteries real or is it just reporting incorrectly.

* Does this fix somehow restore the battery or just prevent further degradation.

Please be patient with me. Reading various sources and not seeing any consistency.

Thanks all.

John
Click to expand...


Its SW so no battery fix.

BMS is not reporting pack true capacity which means it could;

Restrict access of "good pack" to the car lowering range

Allow damage to pack because it "lost track" of pack's status.


Finally; all Li Ion packs degrade so yeah, 30 kwh packs are really degrading but it possible that ;

The degradation is not as bad as the BMS is reporting
Degradation is being caused by the BMS mismanagement.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
I see, it was a software problem, but it only showed up in warm climates. Makes perfect sense.
Click to expand...

Reading the comments here and Nissan's response, I am feeling a sense of deja vue.

SOS, different battery pack.
 
Hey guys. Long time lurker, figured I might finally have something valuable to contribute. 2016 sv with 28,000 miles on it in Phoenix Arizona. I just lost my 4th capacity bar this morning. Came here to check on the wait time for batteries (been watching this thread since my first bar got lost), and saw the bms upgrade information.

So I'm taking the car in tomorrow morning to have the battery looked at. Didn't know about the recall until I started reading about it here. So I imagine they're probably going to do the bms software update, and send me on my way. Figured I'd offer up some data for those that are curious. I'll charge up tonight, and put my leafspy stats when it's done. And depending on what they do I can come back and post each morning after charging for a couple weeks, if that's useful to you all.
 
Overheatingleaf said:
Hey guys. Long time lurker, figured I might finally have something valuable to contribute. 2016 sv with 28,000 miles on it in Phoenix Arizona. I just lost my 4th capacity bar this morning. Came here to check on the wait time for batteries (been watching this thread since my first bar got lost), and saw the bms upgrade information.

So I'm taking the car in tomorrow morning to have the battery looked at. Didn't know about the recall until I started reading about it here. So I imagine they're probably going to do the bms software update, and send me on my way. Figured I'd offer up some data for those that are curious. I'll charge up tonight, and put my leafspy stats when it's done. And depending on what they do I can come back and post each morning after charging for a couple weeks, if that's useful to you all.
Click to expand...

If you could post some QC charge curves, that would be great.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Overheatingleaf said:
Hey guys. Long time lurker, figured I might finally have something valuable to contribute. 2016 sv with 28,000 miles on it in Phoenix Arizona. I just lost my 4th capacity bar this morning. Came here to check on the wait time for batteries (been watching this thread since my first bar got lost), and saw the bms upgrade information.

So I'm taking the car in tomorrow morning to have the battery looked at. Didn't know about the recall until I started reading about it here. So I imagine they're probably going to do the bms software update, and send me on my way. Figured I'd offer up some data for those that are curious. I'll charge up tonight, and put my leafspy stats when it's done. And depending on what they do I can come back and post each morning after charging for a couple weeks, if that's useful to you all.
Click to expand...

If you could post some QC charge curves, that would be great.
Click to expand...

Sorry to sound dumb, but I'm not sure what a QC charge curve is. I'm going to be QC charging it in a few hours, so I can grab the data from that, if you can give me a bit more info.
 
Overheatingleaf said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Overheatingleaf said:
Hey guys. Long time lurker, figured I might finally have something valuable to contribute. 2016 sv with 28,000 miles on it in Phoenix Arizona. I just lost my 4th capacity bar this morning. Came here to check on the wait time for batteries (been watching this thread since my first bar got lost), and saw the bms upgrade information.

So I'm taking the car in tomorrow morning to have the battery looked at. Didn't know about the recall until I started reading about it here. So I imagine they're probably going to do the bms software update, and send me on my way. Figured I'd offer up some data for those that are curious. I'll charge up tonight, and put my leafspy stats when it's done. And depending on what they do I can come back and post each morning after charging for a couple weeks, if that's useful to you all.
Click to expand...

If you could post some QC charge curves, that would be great.
Click to expand...

Sorry to sound dumb, but I'm not sure what a QC charge curve is. I'm going to be QC charging it in a few hours, so I can grab the data from that, if you can give me a bit more info.
Click to expand...

The "graphing" screen has several options. simply tap the screen to change them. While charging, one option that is available is the charging screen which will show charging speed, SOC and temperature over time.

At the end of the charge, I usually screenshot it. You "could" also create your own graph with the data logs but the screenshot is... "easier" :)
 
I just got my car back on Monday the 11th. Since they installed a new battery it seems likely that they did the BMS software update as well. I'll call them tomorrow and check on it. I have noticed that regen is available at 97% and it is significant(3 out of 4 bubbles available). I can now recover energy on the first 1000 ft. 2.5 mi long descent that I could not do before even when the car was new. I can now drive the first 12.5 mi. into town using only 3% of the charge. Of course that's with a 1500 ft elevation drop but it's much better than the 5-7% I was using before over the same route.
 
Overheatingleaf said:
Cool, I'll take a look at that, and post my results. Thanks.
Click to expand...

This would be great. One of "my" biggest concerns is this SW update may change the charging curve. Previously the 30 kwh LEAF would charge at full speed to 80% at ANY temperature under 130º "for me."

My 2018 does not. Its charge curve is controlled both by starting battery temperature and changing SOC as car charges. The ramp down now starts in the low 60% SOC range.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
This would be great. One of "my" biggest concerns is this SW update may change the charging curve. Previously the 30 kwh LEAF would charge at full speed to 80% at ANY temperature under 130º "for me.".
Click to expand...

I reached out to Nissan to understand if there is any other SW modifications other than fixing the flaw in the BMC, and they confirmed that there is not.
 
OrientExpress said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
This would be great. One of "my" biggest concerns is this SW update may change the charging curve. Previously the 30 kwh LEAF would charge at full speed to 80% at ANY temperature under 130º "for me.".
Click to expand...

I reached out to Nissan to understand if there is any other SW modifications other than fixing the flaw in the BMC, and they confirmed that there is not.
Click to expand...

We all know they would have not said anything else. But we also don't really know the entire scope of these "flawed" calculations and their effect on the BMS which in reality, very well can and do control charging curves.

Who is to say that the BMS errors do not also extend to this? Does anyone else not find it strange that the 30 kwh pack is the only battery pack in existence that charges to full speed to 80%? LEAF packs before and after sure don't nor does any other BEV manufacturer.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
We all know they would have not said anything else. But we also don't really know the entire scope of these "flawed" calculations and their effect on the BMS which in reality, very well can and do control charging curves.

Who is to say that the BMS errors do not also extend to this? Does anyone else not find it strange that the 30 kwh pack is the only battery pack in existence that charges to full speed to 80%? LEAF packs before and after sure don't nor does any other BEV manufacturer.
Click to expand...

So far those that have had the update done report that the car charges just as fast or faster than before, has better regeneration, etc.
 
Overheatingleaf said:
Just got done with the QC. I think there's a problem with my Bluetooth adapter. It kept disconnecting, and I'd have to pull it out and put it back in to get it to connect again. But I think it has the relevant information, maybe just ignore the first few minutes of the charge.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6zd9B6oApT2RxC389
Click to expand...

To me it looks like the charge drops quickly after start.
 
jbuntz said:
Overheatingleaf said:
Just got done with the QC. I think there's a problem with my Bluetooth adapter. It kept disconnecting, and I'd have to pull it out and put it back in to get it to connect again. But I think it has the relevant information, maybe just ignore the first few minutes of the charge.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6zd9B6oApT2RxC389
Click to expand...

To me it looks like the charge drops quickly after start.
Click to expand...

The first part of the graph is an anomaly since there is no way the SoC increased 25% in one minute. Ignoring that noise, the rapid taper from 38 kW down to 11 kW occurred while the SoC increased from ~ 70% to 95% over ~ 15 minutes.

The bigger problem with the data is that the average charge rate is about 25 kW. Over 15 minutes ~ 5- 6 kWh would enter the battery, but that is surely not 25% of the battery capacity.

uc
 
My LEAF is not part of this TSB/recall but if it was I would not rush to have it done. I trust Nissan to fork the consumer, period.
 
SageBrush said:
My LEAF is not part of this TSB/recall but if it was I would not rush to have it done. I trust Nissan to fork the consumer, period.
Click to expand...
The scary part of this is Oct 31 is the purchase date anniversary for me c/w the 2nd battery usage report :shock:
Hopefully there will be positive reports documented before then as I am sure the update will be applied then.
BTW still haven't received any communication from Nissan regarding this.
 
So, just got back from the dealership, and they ordered a battery for me. I didn't mention the BMS, since I figured they would be the one telling me about it. I think once they submit the order to Nissan that they will call me and have the update done rather than a new battery, but if they want to put in a new battery at this point, that's fine by me.

I also just updated the full charge from this morning to the Google album, sorry couldn't figure out how to embed it here.

LeafSpy lists the following stats.

17.7kwh
229GIDs
62.7% - I think that's total capacity based on %100.

Sorry, I might not be much help on this after all.
 

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