2016 30 kWh Battery data

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SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
You assumed that the ChargePoint used was NOT a QC, i.e. no DC directly to the battery with no losses, except internal battery resistance
losses, right? Was that really the case?
He said Chargepoint at work.

ChargePoint does provide a QC, i.e. which some just call a charger, right?
 
lorenfb said:
SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
You assumed that the ChargePoint used was NOT a QC, i.e. no DC directly to the battery with no losses, except internal battery resistance
losses, right? Was that really the case?
He said Chargepoint at work.

ChargePoint does provide a QC, i.e. which some just call a charger, right?
They do, but so far as I know only profit seeking businesses have bought them. Workplaces and private homes install L2 EVSEs
 
SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
SageBrush said:
He said Chargepoint at work.

ChargePoint does provide a QC, i.e. which some just call a charger, right?
They do, but so far as I know only profit seeking businesses have bought them. Workplaces and private homes install L2 EVSEs

Yes, you're correct. It's unlikely that a QC was there or near a work location.
 
lorenfb said:
SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
ChargePoint does provide a QC, i.e. which some just call a charger, right?
They do, but so far as I know only profit seeking businesses have bought them. Workplaces and private homes install L2 EVSEs

Yes, you're correct. It's unlikely that a QC was there or near a work location.
A QC might be nearby but its use is expensive and probably not convenient for a person going to work. And he did say *at* work.
So lots of reasons to presume L2 charging.
 
SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
SageBrush said:
They do, but so far as I know only profit seeking businesses have bought them. Workplaces and private homes install L2 EVSEs

Yes, you're correct. It's unlikely that a QC was there or near a work location.
A QC might be nearby but its use is expensive and probably not convenient for a person going to work. And he did say *at* work.
So lots of reasons to presume L2 charging.

Expensive? Time is money. I typically don't have more than 10-15 minutes to waste for a charge, and NEVER use a L2 except at home.
 
lorenfb said:
SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
Yes, you're correct. It's unlikely that a QC was there or near a work location.
A QC might be nearby but its use is expensive and probably not convenient for a person going to work. And he did say *at* work.
So lots of reasons to presume L2 charging.

Expensive? Time is money. I typically don't have more than 10-15 minutes to waste for a charge, and NEVER use a L2 except at home.

Most commuters park their cars at work during work hours. Does this mean you don't work out of your office?
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
lorenfb said:
SageBrush said:
A QC might be nearby but its use is expensive and probably not convenient for a person going to work. And he did say *at* work.
So lots of reasons to presume L2 charging.

Expensive? Time is money. I typically don't have more than 10-15 minutes to waste for a charge, and NEVER use a L2 except at home.

Most commuters park their cars at work during work hours. Does this mean you don't work out of your office?
Exactly.
 
Update on new battery after one month. 82.09 AH 363 GID's, SOH 103.20%, Hx 96.82%. 46966 mi. with just over 2000 mi on the new battery.
I had the software update done in late June but it appears that it was already done when the battery was changed. I haven't needed to to do a DCFC yet so I can't comment on charging rates with the new battery. Only real difference I see is that some regen is available at all times. I get one circle of regen available by the time I pull out of the driveway and LeafSpy says it's working. 3 circles by the time I'm down to 97% and all 4 by 94-95% down.

Battery health has actually improved slightly over the last month. I suspect that is due to the BMS learning the new battery. I expect it to take at least a year to see if the software patch actually does anything. I'll keep posting periodically for everyone's benefit.
 
Update on battery. After two months of hot weather there doesn't appear to be any deterioration. Stats are 363 GID's 82.04 AH SOH 103.22% Hx 96.15% 0 DCFC 55 L2. 2696 mi on new battery 47725 mi on the car. Hx has dropped by 1% but that's the only change I see. I still think I need to see a year's worth of data before I have any real confidence in the new battery and the software change.
 
johnlocke said:
Update on battery. After two months of hot weather there doesn't appear to be any deterioration. Stats are 363 GID's 82.04 AH SOH 103.22% Hx 96.15% 0 DCFC 55 L2. 2696 mi on new battery 47725 mi on the car. Hx has dropped by 1% but that's the only change I see. I still think I need to see a year's worth of data before I have any real confidence in the new battery and the software change.

Great initial report but what is farthest you have driven? Largest DoD?

Unless you pop off a 110 mile run, we hold judgment. ;)
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
johnlocke said:
Update on battery. After two months of hot weather there doesn't appear to be any deterioration. Stats are 363 GID's 82.04 AH SOH 103.22% Hx 96.15% 0 DCFC 55 L2. 2696 mi on new battery 47725 mi on the car. Hx has dropped by 1% but that's the only change I see. I still think I need to see a year's worth of data before I have any real confidence in the new battery and the software change.

Great initial report but what is farthest you have driven? Largest DoD?

Unless you pop off a 110 mile run, we hold judgment. ;)
Never going to happen. Due to the terrain where I'm living, best I'm ever going to get is about 90 mi. Changing to Michelin Defenders cost me about 5-6% mileage as well. It was a trade off for durability and better handling over the stock tires. I have discharged the battery down to 3% at 84 miles or so (hot day, A/C blasting, 2000 ft elevation change each way). On flat terrain, in cooler weather, I could probably get 110 mi on a charge. but I live up in the mountains where the temps hit 100 regularly. Maybe during the spring or fall i might get 95 mi to turtle with careful driving but that's about it.
 
I'm thinking it's more the elevation changes than the temperature in your case. I'm in Houston with 100+ temperatures and intense humidity and I could do 120 miles plus when brand new. Now I'm more like 80-90 with degradation. Haven't done BMS update yet. Car has actually been in the shop for two months after a fairly minor fender bender (got rear ended with damage to front and rear bumpers).
 
johnlocke said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
johnlocke said:
Update on battery. After two months of hot weather there doesn't appear to be any deterioration. Stats are 363 GID's 82.04 AH SOH 103.22% Hx 96.15% 0 DCFC 55 L2. 2696 mi on new battery 47725 mi on the car. Hx has dropped by 1% but that's the only change I see. I still think I need to see a year's worth of data before I have any real confidence in the new battery and the software change.

Great initial report but what is farthest you have driven? Largest DoD?

Unless you pop off a 110 mile run, we hold judgment. ;)
Never going to happen. Due to the terrain where I'm living, best I'm ever going to get is about 90 mi. Changing to Michelin Defenders cost me about 5-6% mileage as well. It was a trade off for durability and better handling over the stock tires. I have discharged the battery down to 3% at 84 miles or so (hot day, A/C blasting, 2000 ft elevation change each way). On flat terrain, in cooler weather, I could probably get 110 mi on a charge. but I live up in the mountains where the temps hit 100 regularly. Maybe during the spring or fall i might get 95 mi to turtle with careful driving but that's about it.

Elevation shouldn't be a killer if driven "modestly." Do you feel like you have the "new car" range back?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
johnlocke said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Great initial report but what is farthest you have driven? Largest DoD?

Unless you pop off a 110 mile run, we hold judgment. ;)
Never going to happen. Due to the terrain where I'm living, best I'm ever going to get is about 90 mi. Changing to Michelin Defenders cost me about 5-6% mileage as well. It was a trade off for durability and better handling over the stock tires. I have discharged the battery down to 3% at 84 miles or so (hot day, A/C blasting, 2000 ft elevation change each way). On flat terrain, in cooler weather, I could probably get 110 mi on a charge. but I live up in the mountains where the temps hit 100 regularly. Maybe during the spring or fall i might get 95 mi to turtle with careful driving but that's about it.

Elevation shouldn't be a killer if driven "modestly." Do you feel like you have the "new car" range back?
Going back uphill takes twice the energy as going down. I use about 5 KWH going in and 10 KWH coming home. With careful driving and minimal A/C, I can average 3.7 mi/KWH on my 55 mi round trip commute and end up with 45-47% left when I arrive home. That's about the same range as I had with the car when new although back then the driving was a bit more spirited and I wasn't worried about range. The tire change seemed to have the most effect with a drop of about 13% when the tires were new. After 10,000 mi., the loss is about 5-6%. I'm not entirely happy about that but it was a trade off for better traction and a 90,000 mi tire warranty. Tires are kept at 44 PSI cold.
 
Update for August. AH = 80.71 SOH = 101.55% Hx = 94.42% mileage = 49142 3 l3 81 L2 on new battery. Still at 363 GID's although the AH value is down by an AH this month. I don't think that I'll see any change in the GID's value until AH drops below 79.5. Three months of hot weather and 4000 miles of driving doesn't seem to have had much effect on the battery. The old battery lost 4 AH it's first summer (June,July,August) so I'm optimistic that the new battery may hold up better.
 
johnlocke said:
Update for August. AH = 80.71 SOH = 101.55% Hx = 94.42% mileage = 49142 3 l3 81 L2 on new battery. Still at 363 GID's although the AH value is down by an AH this month. I don't think that I'll see any change in the GID's value until AH drops below 79.5. Three months of hot weather and 4000 miles of driving doesn't seem to have had much effect on the battery. The old battery lost 4 AH it's first summer (June,July,August) so I'm optimistic that the new battery may hold up better.

In reality, your old battery probably didn't lose much if at all.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
johnlocke said:
Update for August. AH = 80.71 SOH = 101.55% Hx = 94.42% mileage = 49142 3 l3 81 L2 on new battery. Still at 363 GID's although the AH value is down by an AH this month. I don't think that I'll see any change in the GID's value until AH drops below 79.5. Three months of hot weather and 4000 miles of driving doesn't seem to have had much effect on the battery. The old battery lost 4 AH it's first summer (June,July,August) so I'm optimistic that the new battery may hold up better.

In reality, your old battery probably didn't lose much if at all.
No way to actually tell. All I can go by is the recorded values I have. Perception is reality for most people. It was enough for Nissan to replace the battery an any case. All I can do is compare results. If the software or the new battery improves the longevity over the old battery I really don't care which one causes it. Until I see actual reports of improved capacity (more actual miles per charge) from owners with the software update, the jury is still out on what the update does other than change the numbers that LeafSpy reports.
 
johnlocke said:
jury is still out on what the update does other than change the numbers that LeafSpy reports.

It seems pretty clear that the only thing the update does is change the numbers that LeafSpy reports, and that determine how many capacity bars to show.

The important question is: Is the new firmware more accurate than the old firmware?

Capacity estimation is a hard subject, there are some good papers on the difficulties, but they all seem to be behind paywalls. This is why most EV makers hide any capacity estimates from the user. Nissan is more open on this topic, and is due credit for being so.
 
WetEV said:
johnlocke said:
jury is still out on what the update does other than change the numbers that LeafSpy reports.

It seems pretty clear that the only thing the update does is change the numbers that LeafSpy reports, and that determine how many capacity bars to show.

The important question is: Is the new firmware more accurate than the old firmware?

Capacity estimation is a hard subject, there are some good papers on the difficulties, but they all seem to be behind paywalls. This is why most EV makers hide any capacity estimates from the user. Nissan is more open on this topic, and is due credit for being so.
If the firmware update changes the AH values then we should expect to see more GID's then before the update and an increase in range. People have reported the change in AH but so far I haven't seen any reports of higher GID's values or any increase in range. If the range doesn't change after the upgrade then Nissan is just jerking us around and trying to avoid warranty claims. If the car shows 12 bars but only gets 65-70 miles to a charge then the only thing Nissan fixed is their warranty issue not the battery. I can't make that comparison since I had the battery changed and the update done at the same time. We need owners who were down 2-3 bars and are now back up to 12 bars to report their GID's value at full charge from both before and after the update and if they have noticed any increase in overall range since the update.
 
johnlocke said:
We need owners who were down 2-3 bars and are now back up to 12 bars to report their GID's value at full charge from both before and after the update and if they have noticed any increase in overall range since the update.

While GIDs seem useful, I don't know exactly what they are. They seem to be about 75 Wh, more or less at different temperatures and at different SOCs. If a version of the BMS firmware isn't reporting capacity correctly, then GIDs might or might not be any better.

Is the reported capacity more correct before or after the upgrade? Here are some measurements. Do you have any better measurements?

MeasuredVersusPreSoHAhDef-768x640.png


MeasuredVersusPostSoHAhDef-768x640.png


Source:

https://flipthefleet.org/2018/30-kwh-nissan-leaf-firmware-update-to-correct-capacity-reporting/
 
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