User avatar
IssacZachary
Posts: 881
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:54 pm

LeftieBiker wrote: You are mistaken. The PIP uses a lithium pack: that is a major reason why it gets great MPG when not charged, despite the extra weight. The pack accepts regen charge faster than the NiMH packs. It's in the documentation. The Prius Eco also uses a (small) lithium pack.
That's good to know! I will check into if getting a used PIP would be possible for me.
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CURRENT

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12965
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:09 am

Just remember: no heated steering wheel, and NO ELECTRIC HEAT AT ALL. I don't drive ours in Winter. The A/C is electric in all of them, so you do have that in the (short ~10 mile range) EV mode, and can start it from the key fob. The PIP is best at getting amazing MPG in Hybrid mode, and it's also good for hauling things, with no liftover barrier in the rear.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

User avatar
IssacZachary
Posts: 881
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:28 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Just remember: no heated steering wheel, and NO ELECTRIC HEAT AT ALL. I don't drive ours in Winter. The A/C is electric in all of them, so you do have that in the (short ~10 mile range) EV mode, and can start it from the key fob. The PIP is best at getting amazing MPG in Hybrid mode, and it's also good for hauling things, with no liftover barrier in the rear.
My theory is that a PIP or Prime would work better for us for our mountains. There are decents with as much as a 2,000 or perhaps 3,000ft change. So if I had a way to assorb some of that energy and use it to go up the next hill, that should really help with fuel mileage.

I noticed that the Leaf was good at that. Every mountain we went down the SOC would go up. On the highway, I view the non-plug-in Prii like regular ICE vehicles. The hybrid system won't really be of much use. And I drive mostly on the highway, about 125 miles highway and 10 to 25 miles city. For that reason I have thought about getting just a regular non-hybrid. But oddly the Prii seem to get better fuel mileage even on the highway than anything else, except maybe a diesel Cruze. But the Cruze isn't nearly as reliable as a Prius, according to Consumer Reports. Then there's the Mitsubishi Mirage, Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, etc., which still don't get as good of fuel mileage on the highway as a Prius. But we've decided we want a family sized car like our Leaf. So we have decided to stop looking at Prius C's and stick with the normal sized Prius lineup.
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CURRENT

LeftieBiker
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:13 pm

Then a PIP might work. Even if you fully charged it, using Eco mode would drain the charge pretty quickly, leave room in the pack for that regen energy. I assume that you understand that regen is only about ~35% efficient, and are talking about improving over the "total loss" scenario with most cars.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

User avatar
IssacZachary
Posts: 881
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:29 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Then a PIP might work. Even if you fully charged it, using Eco mode would drain the charge pretty quickly, leave room in the pack for that regen energy. I assume that you understand that regen is only about ~35% efficient, and are talking about improving over the "total loss" scenario with most cars.
Yes, I know regen isn't at all efficient. It is better than nothing though. And the hybrid systems seem to lend themselves to allowing for a more efficient engine than in a tradicional ICE car. Too bad the Volt doesn't have a very efficient ICE. The BMW i3REX seems like a great concept, but companies like Toyota don't believe in that concept yet.

I've often pondered trading the hybrid batteries for super capacitors in a Prius, or developing a small +70% efficient hydraulic hybrid system for a car. However, that all would be way too expensive to do. But I can dream, can't I?
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CURRENT

jjeff
Posts: 1918
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:59 pm

IssacZachary wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Just remember: no heated steering wheel, and NO ELECTRIC HEAT AT ALL. I don't drive ours in Winter. The A/C is electric in all of them, so you do have that in the (short ~10 mile range) EV mode, and can start it from the key fob. The PIP is best at getting amazing MPG in Hybrid mode, and it's also good for hauling things, with no liftover barrier in the rear.
My theory is that a PIP or Prime would work better for us for our mountains. There are decents with as much as a 2,000 or perhaps 3,000ft change. So if I had a way to assorb some of that energy and use it to go up the next hill, that should really help with fuel mileage.

I noticed that the Leaf was good at that. Every mountain we went down the SOC would go up. On the highway, I view the non-plug-in Prii like regular ICE vehicles. The hybrid system won't really be of much use. And I drive mostly on the highway, about 125 miles highway and 10 to 25 miles city. For that reason I have thought about getting just a regular non-hybrid. But oddly the Prii seem to get better fuel mileage even on the highway than anything else, except maybe a diesel Cruze. But the Cruze isn't nearly as reliable as a Prius, according to Consumer Reports. Then there's the Mitsubishi Mirage, Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, etc., which still don't get as good of fuel mileage on the highway as a Prius. But we've decided we want a family sized car like our Leaf. So we have decided to stop looking at Prius C's and stick with the normal sized Prius lineup.
The regular Prius would be almost worthless in mountains, even around here with large hills the battery is basically depleted before the top of the hill(running the ICE the whole time) and charges fully before the bottom of the hill, resulting in an annoying revving of the engine to help slow the car down. Still the Prius is a great road vehicle, we got 50MPH on our last trip to FL and that was with many times doing 70mph up to 80 when we had to.
Personally I wouldn't trust the Cruze diesel, the Mitsui Mirage is really a tin can(I seriously looked at one, it made my Geo Metro look like a Buick!) and the Prius C is just too small with a negligible increase in fuel economy. I agree about the Volt which again I seriously looked at, too poor hwy MPG and WAY!! to cramped. The newer Volts were a bit better on both accounts but still nothing like our Prius.
No in our situation if I only wanted one car it would be the Prime, great ICE MPG and decent electric range for short trips. I also like the idea of the heat pump heater in the Prime, very unique for a PHEV. If I were much smaller and didn't care about getting 50mpg on the highway the newer Volt might be worth thinking about but I'm pretty sure no heat pump although I believe it does have an electric heater, although I'm not sure about the newer ones but the older ones you had to trick the ICE to not start when the temps get cold.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
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SageBrush
Posts: 4725
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:22 pm

jjeff wrote: The regular Prius would be almost worthless in mountains
They worked just fine for me for the ~ 15 years I owned them, but it does help to know how to operate them for best performance.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
IssacZachary
Posts: 881
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:21 pm

I know this may sound schizophrenic, but now I'm looking at used Toyota Avalon Hybrids.
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CURRENT

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12965
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:22 am

IssacZachary wrote:I know this may sound schizophrenic, but now I'm looking at used Toyota Avalon Hybrids.
Probably more power (?), worse fuel economy.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

2k1Toaster
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:45 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 420903

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:59 am

Also doesn't the Avalon have that stupid pass through to the trunk that's good for a pair of skis and nothing else? Rear seats don't even make an effort to fold down. That would be a deal breaker for me. Completely unusable.
2013 Nissan Leaf SV with every option
2013 Prius C Package 4
2012 Lexus RX450h
2006 Prius Gen II, pIV
2005 Honda Civic Hybrid
2001 Honda Civic EX
1997 Honda Prelude SH
1981 DeLorean DMC12
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