I have a Leaf, so now what?

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LeftieBiker said:
You are mistaken. The PIP uses a lithium pack: that is a major reason why it gets great MPG when not charged, despite the extra weight. The pack accepts regen charge faster than the NiMH packs. It's in the documentation. The Prius Eco also uses a (small) lithium pack.
That's good to know! I will check into if getting a used PIP would be possible for me.
 
Just remember: no heated steering wheel, and NO ELECTRIC HEAT AT ALL. I don't drive ours in Winter. The A/C is electric in all of them, so you do have that in the (short ~10 mile range) EV mode, and can start it from the key fob. The PIP is best at getting amazing MPG in Hybrid mode, and it's also good for hauling things, with no liftover barrier in the rear.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Just remember: no heated steering wheel, and NO ELECTRIC HEAT AT ALL. I don't drive ours in Winter. The A/C is electric in all of them, so you do have that in the (short ~10 mile range) EV mode, and can start it from the key fob. The PIP is best at getting amazing MPG in Hybrid mode, and it's also good for hauling things, with no liftover barrier in the rear.
My theory is that a PIP or Prime would work better for us for our mountains. There are decents with as much as a 2,000 or perhaps 3,000ft change. So if I had a way to assorb some of that energy and use it to go up the next hill, that should really help with fuel mileage.

I noticed that the Leaf was good at that. Every mountain we went down the SOC would go up. On the highway, I view the non-plug-in Prii like regular ICE vehicles. The hybrid system won't really be of much use. And I drive mostly on the highway, about 125 miles highway and 10 to 25 miles city. For that reason I have thought about getting just a regular non-hybrid. But oddly the Prii seem to get better fuel mileage even on the highway than anything else, except maybe a diesel Cruze. But the Cruze isn't nearly as reliable as a Prius, according to Consumer Reports. Then there's the Mitsubishi Mirage, Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, etc., which still don't get as good of fuel mileage on the highway as a Prius. But we've decided we want a family sized car like our Leaf. So we have decided to stop looking at Prius C's and stick with the normal sized Prius lineup.
 
Then a PIP might work. Even if you fully charged it, using Eco mode would drain the charge pretty quickly, leave room in the pack for that regen energy. I assume that you understand that regen is only about ~35% efficient, and are talking about improving over the "total loss" scenario with most cars.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Then a PIP might work. Even if you fully charged it, using Eco mode would drain the charge pretty quickly, leave room in the pack for that regen energy. I assume that you understand that regen is only about ~35% efficient, and are talking about improving over the "total loss" scenario with most cars.
Yes, I know regen isn't at all efficient. It is better than nothing though. And the hybrid systems seem to lend themselves to allowing for a more efficient engine than in a tradicional ICE car. Too bad the Volt doesn't have a very efficient ICE. The BMW i3REX seems like a great concept, but companies like Toyota don't believe in that concept yet.

I've often pondered trading the hybrid batteries for super capacitors in a Prius, or developing a small +70% efficient hydraulic hybrid system for a car. However, that all would be way too expensive to do. But I can dream, can't I?
 
IssacZachary said:
LeftieBiker said:
Just remember: no heated steering wheel, and NO ELECTRIC HEAT AT ALL. I don't drive ours in Winter. The A/C is electric in all of them, so you do have that in the (short ~10 mile range) EV mode, and can start it from the key fob. The PIP is best at getting amazing MPG in Hybrid mode, and it's also good for hauling things, with no liftover barrier in the rear.
My theory is that a PIP or Prime would work better for us for our mountains. There are decents with as much as a 2,000 or perhaps 3,000ft change. So if I had a way to assorb some of that energy and use it to go up the next hill, that should really help with fuel mileage.

I noticed that the Leaf was good at that. Every mountain we went down the SOC would go up. On the highway, I view the non-plug-in Prii like regular ICE vehicles. The hybrid system won't really be of much use. And I drive mostly on the highway, about 125 miles highway and 10 to 25 miles city. For that reason I have thought about getting just a regular non-hybrid. But oddly the Prii seem to get better fuel mileage even on the highway than anything else, except maybe a diesel Cruze. But the Cruze isn't nearly as reliable as a Prius, according to Consumer Reports. Then there's the Mitsubishi Mirage, Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, etc., which still don't get as good of fuel mileage on the highway as a Prius. But we've decided we want a family sized car like our Leaf. So we have decided to stop looking at Prius C's and stick with the normal sized Prius lineup.
The regular Prius would be almost worthless in mountains, even around here with large hills the battery is basically depleted before the top of the hill(running the ICE the whole time) and charges fully before the bottom of the hill, resulting in an annoying revving of the engine to help slow the car down. Still the Prius is a great road vehicle, we got 50MPH on our last trip to FL and that was with many times doing 70mph up to 80 when we had to.
Personally I wouldn't trust the Cruze diesel, the Mitsui Mirage is really a tin can(I seriously looked at one, it made my Geo Metro look like a Buick!) and the Prius C is just too small with a negligible increase in fuel economy. I agree about the Volt which again I seriously looked at, too poor hwy MPG and WAY!! to cramped. The newer Volts were a bit better on both accounts but still nothing like our Prius.
No in our situation if I only wanted one car it would be the Prime, great ICE MPG and decent electric range for short trips. I also like the idea of the heat pump heater in the Prime, very unique for a PHEV. If I were much smaller and didn't care about getting 50mpg on the highway the newer Volt might be worth thinking about but I'm pretty sure no heat pump although I believe it does have an electric heater, although I'm not sure about the newer ones but the older ones you had to trick the ICE to not start when the temps get cold.
 
jjeff said:
The regular Prius would be almost worthless in mountains
They worked just fine for me for the ~ 15 years I owned them, but it does help to know how to operate them for best performance.
 
Also doesn't the Avalon have that stupid pass through to the trunk that's good for a pair of skis and nothing else? Rear seats don't even make an effort to fold down. That would be a deal breaker for me. Completely unusable.
 
LeftieBiker said:
IssacZachary said:
I know this may sound schizophrenic, but now I'm looking at used Toyota Avalon Hybrids.

Probably more power (?), worse fuel economy.
Rated 40mpg city and 39mpg highway with it's little 4 cylinder. Mainly more space and more safety.
2k1Toaster said:
Also doesn't the Avalon have that stupid pass through to the trunk that's good for a pair of skis and nothing else? Rear seats don't even make an effort to fold down. That would be a deal breaker for me. Completely unusable.
Good point!

My theory has always been (although I haven't ever done it yet) is that if I want to haul something bigger than the trunk space, to have a small trailer set up so I can put that on a trailer and not bother with scuffing the interior of the car. A hitch may cost $300 and a small trailer about the same. We normally have friends going with us anyway to the places we go so folding down the seats isn't always an option. There have been several times I've hauled a bunch of (my wife's) stuff in the car to the point I have to move my seat all the way forward (and I'm 6'1") and still can't see out the rear of the vehicle (and I've done this for trips as long as 700 miles).

So if I can get my wife to stop thinking of the car as a pickup truck, that would be fine with me.
 
IssacZachary said:
LeftieBiker said:
IssacZachary said:
So if I can get my wife to stop thinking of the car as a pickup truck, that would be fine with me.

That's one of my favourite parts of the Prius. It's pikcup truck like space. And in many ways it is superior. Much larger interior space so I could put 10ft lumber in the vehicle and not have it get rained on on the way back or have to have it sticking through a window like every pickup truck. Just like everything I haul from full sized bath-tubs to loads of tiles to literal tons of mulch and more are all comfy cozy inside the car.

Only downside is that it takes about 3 days after hauling that much mulch or dirt to stop smelling like a barn.

I guess Toyota wouldn't sell the Avalon if their wasn't a market for it, but it is one of those vehicles I just don't get, just like its sister car the Lexus ES. I completely understand why an Lexus LS exists. It's a car to be driven in so who cares if the rear seats don't fold down you're getting a full massage as your driver takes you down the road. But the ES/Avalon... Meh.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Rated 40mpg city and 39mpg highway with it's little 4 cylinder. Mainly more space and more safety.

So less power (or the same) and worse fuel economy. That extra space won't be as usable, as noted.
I just got back from a trip to Salt Lake City. As usual, we had so much stuff in the car I had my seat crammed all the way forward there and back. And as usual, I got home with cramps in my back and legs.
 
IssacZachary said:
LeftieBiker said:
Rated 40mpg city and 39mpg highway with it's little 4 cylinder. Mainly more space and more safety.

So less power (or the same) and worse fuel economy. That extra space won't be as usable, as noted.
I just got back from a trip to Salt Lake City. As usual, we had so much stuff in the car I had my seat crammed all the way forward there and back. And as usual, I got home with cramps in my back and legs.

We also just got back from SLC but we flew. Took 300lbs of stuff in 6 large suitcases for free. :)

Also just last week loaded the Prius with an electrical panel. Doesn't even fit in most pickup trucks. But this was inside out of the torrential rains with tons of room to spare. I know of no other vehicle on the road that isn't a van that could even try to do this

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We carried a large, heavy 7500 watt dual fuel generator, still in its shipping crate, home in ours. The guys at Home Depot didn't think it would fit, and I had brief reservations, but it did, easily. The Gen III Prius is designed so there is a bottleneck (a small one) at the hatch opening. If you get something passed that, it will fit in the center of the cargo area.
 
alozzy said:
This thread seems to have wandered off topic just a bit ;) Perhaps someone can start a new one...
Naw, that's not off topic.. The topic title says "so now what" :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:
 
alozzy said:
This thread seems to have wandered off topic just a bit ;) Perhaps someone can start a new one...
So now what?

Anyhow it's all settled and done.

I got a 2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid. I got 41.0 mpg average over the past 1,500 miles going 75mph with the A/C running non-stop. Although not at as impressive as my 55mpg diesel or a new Prius Prime. it's not too bad. It does specify midgrade fuel (87) octane, so gallon for gallon, it will be just about the same as diesel fuel.

2k1Toaster said:
I just got back from a trip to Salt Lake City. As usual, we had so much stuff in the car I had my seat crammed all the way forward there and back. And as usual, I got home with cramps in my back and legs.

We also just got back from SLC but we flew. Took 300lbs of stuff in 6 large suitcases for free. :)

Also just last week loaded the Prius with an electrical panel. Doesn't even fit in most pickup trucks. But this was inside out of the torrential rains with tons of room to spare. I know of no other vehicle on the road that isn't a van that could even try to do this[/quote]

That's awesome. Kind of reminds me of a few trips I did in my Leaf, like when I hauled a 10ft ladder once. We did check out a used Prius V and a few other Prii. But the wife and I both liked the Avalon better. The nice thing is I haul mostly people, so it's not all that bad. I do plan on a small, hopefully enclosed, trailer even though Toyota doesn't recommend towing.
 
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