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^^^
I don't care about the percentages in Leaf Spy. What's the denominator?

IIRC, LBW sounds at about 49 gid and VLBW at about 24 gid on 24 kWh Leafs.
 
What are the various "low battery indicators?"

Let me list them and you guys can correct me. I'm on Nissan 2017.

On the main cluster display:

1. "low battery warning."
2. "three dashes where the GOM is." (what is the last GOM miles number before it goes to dashes?)
3. "very low battery warning."
4. "turtle icon mode"

-Andrew
 
Silverfish said:
LeftieBiker said:
This is a good strategy. However, you shouldn't be getting any kind of "low battery warning" at 30%, unless you have a severely degraded battery. More like 18-20%.

In the two months I've had the car, I always get a low battery warning at 16-17 miles on the guess-o-meter, which registers as between 29% and 32% in LeafSpy. I did wonder about that.

How would I know if I had a severely degraded battery? The range is pretty consistent at about 70-75 miles on the GoM at 100% charge, and 55-60 miles at 80% charge, depending on how much freeway driving I've been doing. On 100% charge, I can generally drive 50-55 miles before hitting the low battery warning. On an 80% charge, it's about 30-35.

It's a 2013 SV with about 53,700 miles and 11 bars. SOH is hovering between 76% and 77%, so I'm surprised it's not yet at 10 bars. Do all those numbers not add up right? Maybe there's a way to reset the % at which the LBW sounds, and the previous owner did? I'd be happy to drive it down to 20%, just been nervous because of the warning.

Thanks.

The Low Battery warning does come at higher and higher percentages as the battery loses capacity, so a pack nearing 9 bars might show it at about 30%. I would define ~9 bars as somewhere between "substantially degraded" and "severely degraded." How many miles of remaining range the Guess 'O Meter gives depends on several variables, so while it might be consistent for you, it doesn't make for an apples to apples comparison with other Leafs.
 
Thanks, folks.

cwerdna said:
^^^
I don't care about the percentages in Leaf Spy. What's the denominator?

IIRC, LBW sounds at about 49 gid and VLBW at about 24 gid on 24 kWh Leafs.

I'm not sure which denominator you mean.

Some stats on a time I hit LBW a couple of weeks ago:

GIDs: 47 (there's also a 16.7% value that might correlate with GIDs)
SOC: 28.9%
3.6 kWh remaining
AHr: 50.69
SOH: 77.5
HX: 70.33
GoM: 15

Does that answer your question? I'm not really sure of the difference between GIDs and SOC; I've mostly been tracking SOC. Should I track GIDs too?

I've only ever hit LBW, never VLBW or turtle mode. I generally hit LBW just a couple of miles from home, partially because I'm rarely more than a couple of miles from home. :)

ETA: There's also a DTE value for these LBW readings that looks like it's at about 13%.
 
Silverfish said:
Thanks, folks.

cwerdna said:
^^^
I don't care about the percentages in Leaf Spy. What's the denominator?

IIRC, LBW sounds at about 49 gid and VLBW at about 24 gid on 24 kWh Leafs.

I'm not sure which denominator you mean.
I don't mean to insult your intelligence but let's take a step back:
numerator / denominator = some result that you can convert to a % if you multiply by 100
49 / 100 = 0.49 = 49%

If see SOC % of 28.9% and in an earlier post, you said "which registers as between 29% and 32% in LeafSpy", what is the numerator and what is the denominator to arrive at this? Of what use is this %?

You said "GIDs: 47 (there's also a 16.7% value that might correlate with GIDs)". Why would I care about 16.7%? What's the numerator and denominator here? Do you see why I don't care? I'd rather just look at the actual gid value.

We already have at least 3 percentages that vary with the state of the charge of the battery: SOC % in Leaf Spy, gid % in Leaf Spy and the dash display's % SoC (which was developed by Nissan independently of Leaf Spy). I only pay attention to the dash display's % SoC and raw gid number. The other two percentages I don't care about.
 
Regarding VLB warning at a LeafSpy reported SoC of 30%:

LeafSpy uses a 0-100% scale that includes the reserved (unusable) capacities at the top and bottom of the battery. I don't know exactly how much is at the bottom but if it is ~ 1 kWh, that is equal to ~ 4.5% of a new battery and about 3 Ahr. The LEAF uses a SoC scale from 0 - 100% that ignores the unusable buffers at the top and bottom of the battery.

There is about 11 Ahr usable at VLB
LeafSpy measures 14 Ahr remaining by including the bottom buffer

OP's battery has about 50 Ahr usable, so at VLB LeafSpy measures a SoC of (11+3)/(50+3) = 26.4%
 
cwerdna said:
Silverfish said:
Thanks, folks.

cwerdna said:
^^^
I don't care about the percentages in Leaf Spy. What's the denominator?

IIRC, LBW sounds at about 49 gid and VLBW at about 24 gid on 24 kWh Leafs.

I'm not sure which denominator you mean.
I don't mean to insult your intelligence but let's take a step back:
numerator / denominator = some result that you can convert to a % if you multiply by 100
49 / 100 = 0.49 = 49%

If see SOC % of 28.9% and in an earlier post, you said "which registers as between 29% and 32% in LeafSpy", what is the numerator and what is the denominator to arrive at this? Of what use is this %?

You said "GIDs: 47 (there's also a 16.7% value that might correlate with GIDs)". Why would I care about 16.7%? What's the numerator and denominator here? Do you see why I don't care? I'd rather just look at the actual gid value.

We already have at least 3 percentages that vary with the state of the charge of the battery: SOC % in Leaf Spy, gid % in Leaf Spy and the dash display's % SoC (which was developed by Nissan independently of Leaf Spy). I only pay attention to the dash display's % SoC and raw gid number. The other two percentages I don't care about.

I don't know the numbers that the Leaf or LeafSpy uses to arrive at its percentages, which is why I said I didn't know which denominator you meant. All I see are the numbers in the LeafSpy display pages; most of it is Greek to me. Honestly I'm not sure what use the GID value is either, or how it's used in calculating any of the percentages. I was just providing the data I saw, hoping that that info contained the answer to your question.

So what does the GID number mean?
 
Silverfish said:
So what does the GID number mean?
Sorry for the history lesson, hopefully I'm accurate on gid history as I didn't have a Leaf until July 2013 but had test driven as far back Nov 2010, before they went on sale.

'11 and '12 Leaf never had a % state of charge display. It only had the crappy GOM and 12 fuel bars. Then (AFAIK), the user garygid discovered a value (http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Glossary) that others named in his honor: gid. It was discovered that a new 24 kWh Leaf fully charged had about 281 gids (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=5582) and the value went down as the battery discharged. People used this as a proxy for % state of charge since it's FAR more granular than the 12 fuel bars and is a lot better than the black box algorithm GOM that sucks.

The original gid meter (SOC meter) was http://www.wwwsite.com/puzzles/socmeter/. You can see what they look like at https://saxton.org/tom_saxton/2012/01/leaf-soc-meter-build.html. I've seen them myself. Garygid is mentioned at https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/automobiles/nissan-leafs-true-believers-wont-leave-well-enough-alone.html.

At a meeting in late 2011 at Google (I was in attendence) where the gen 1 Leaf's Chief Vehicle Engineer (Kadota-san) + Mark Perry + Nissan's quality guy + some engineers from Japan (see recap starting from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155461#p155461) were present, folks implored Nissan to add % SoC display, besides showing them some other mods (e.g. gid meter, turbine engine tow generator, etc.) and making some other requests.

Nissan listened on a bunch of the asks. % SoC display got added to '13 Leafs.

Other devices to read gids + other info also came along (e.g. LeafDD: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12561, WattsLeft: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=8527).

Gids were also helpful to use with Tony's range charts (esp. on aforementioned '11 and '12 Leafs w/crap instrumentation): http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295.

The default in Leaf Spy settings is 77.5 watt-hours per gid. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=523862#p523862 for caveats, including straight from Leaf Spy author himself, Turbo3.

Also, as the battery degrades, the # of max gids on a 100% charge (per dash display and when car stops when full) goes down. My 11 bar Leaf only gets up to mid to high 230s or low 240s gids on a full charge.

Nissan has AFAIK never released any documentation on nor publicly acknowledged any of the values that Leaf Spy can render. We have no idea of their accuracy, caveats, conditions which are required for them to be accurate (if that exists), etc. I've posted my thoughts on values that people commonly look at in Leaf Spy at http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=510091#p510091.
 
cwerdna said:
Silverfish said:
So what does the GID number mean?
Sorry for the history lesson, hopefully I'm accurate on gid history as I didn't have a Leaf until July 2013 but had test driven as far back Nov 2010, before they went on sale.

'11 and '12 Leaf never had a % state of charge display. It only had the crappy GOM and 12 fuel bars. Then (AFAIK), the user garygid discovered a value (http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Glossary) that others named in his honor: gid. It was discovered that a new 24 kWh Leaf fully charged had about 281 gids (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=5582) and the value went down as the battery discharged. People used this as a proxy for % state of charge since it's FAR more granular than the 12 fuel bars and is a lot better than the black box algorithm GOM that sucks.

The original gid meter (SOC meter) was http://www.wwwsite.com/puzzles/socmeter/. You can see what they look like at https://saxton.org/tom_saxton/2012/01/leaf-soc-meter-build.html. I've seen them myself. Garygid is mentioned at https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/automobiles/nissan-leafs-true-believers-wont-leave-well-enough-alone.html.

At a meeting in late 2011 at Google (I was in attendence) where the gen 1 Leaf's Chief Vehicle Engineer (Kadota-san) + Mark Perry + Nissan's quality guy + some engineers from Japan (see recap starting from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155461#p155461) were present, folks implored Nissan to add % SoC display, besides showing them some other mods (e.g. gid meter, turbine engine tow generator, etc.) and making some other requests.

Nissan listened on a bunch of the asks. % SoC display got added to '13 Leafs.

Other devices to read gids + other info also came along (e.g. LeafDD: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12561, WattsLeft: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=8527).

Gids were also helpful to use with Tony's range charts (esp. on aforementioned '11 and '12 Leafs w/crap instrumentation): http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295.

The default in Leaf Spy settings is 77.5 watt-hours per gid. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=523862#p523862 for caveats, including straight from Leaf Spy author himself, Turbo3.

Also, as the battery degrades, the # of max gids on a 100% charge (per dash display and when car stops when full) goes down. My 11 bar Leaf only gets up to mid to high 230s or low 240s gids on a full charge.

Nissan has AFAIK never released any documentation on nor publicly acknowledged any of the values that Leaf Spy can render. We have no idea of their accuracy, caveats, conditions which are required for them to be accurate (if that exists), etc. I've posted my thoughts on values that people commonly look at in Leaf Spy at http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=510091#p510091.

Wow, cool explanation with history background! Great info (I always wonder what GID was about as it's listed prominently in LeafSpy. Thanks!
 
cwerdna said:
Silverfish said:
So what does the GID number mean?
Sorry for the history lesson, hopefully I'm accurate on gid history as I didn't have a Leaf until July 2013 but had test driven as far back Nov 2010, before they went on sale.

'11 and '12 Leaf never had a % state of charge display. It only had the crappy GOM and 12 fuel bars. Then (AFAIK), the user garygid discovered a value (http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Glossary) that others named in his honor: gid. It was discovered that a new 24 kWh Leaf fully charged had about 281 gids (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=5582) and the value went down as the battery discharged. People used this as a proxy for % state of charge since it's FAR more granular than the 12 fuel bars and is a lot better than the black box algorithm GOM that sucks.

The original gid meter (SOC meter) was http://www.wwwsite.com/puzzles/socmeter/. You can see what they look like at https://saxton.org/tom_saxton/2012/01/leaf-soc-meter-build.html. I've seen them myself. Garygid is mentioned at https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/automobiles/nissan-leafs-true-believers-wont-leave-well-enough-alone.html.

At a meeting in late 2011 at Google (I was in attendence) where the gen 1 Leaf's Chief Vehicle Engineer (Kadota-san) + Mark Perry + Nissan's quality guy + some engineers from Japan (see recap starting from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155461#p155461) were present, folks implored Nissan to add % SoC display, besides showing them some other mods (e.g. gid meter, turbine engine tow generator, etc.) and making some other requests.

Nissan listened on a bunch of the asks. % SoC display got added to '13 Leafs.

Other devices to read gids + other info also came along (e.g. LeafDD: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12561, WattsLeft: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=8527).

Gids were also helpful to use with Tony's range charts (esp. on aforementioned '11 and '12 Leafs w/crap instrumentation): http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295.

The default in Leaf Spy settings is 77.5 watt-hours per gid. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=523862#p523862 for caveats, including straight from Leaf Spy author himself, Turbo3.

Also, as the battery degrades, the # of max gids on a 100% charge (per dash display and when car stops when full) goes down. My 11 bar Leaf only gets up to mid to high 230s or low 240s gids on a full charge.

Nissan has AFAIK never released any documentation on nor publicly acknowledged any of the values that Leaf Spy can render. We have no idea of their accuracy, caveats, conditions which are required for them to be accurate (if that exists), etc. I've posted my thoughts on values that people commonly look at in Leaf Spy at http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=510091#p510091.

Thanks, cwerdna. That was quite interesting. It looks like my car's max GIDs at 100% is currently around 215. That suggests that my battery retains about 76.5% of its original capacity, which is about what I thought.
 
Silverfish said:
It looks like my car's max GIDs at 100% is currently around 215. That suggests that my battery retains about 76.5% of its original capacity, which is about what I thought.

Just a warning that the BMS GID and other values are not accurate to less than 1%. More like +/- 3% at best, and even less accurate if you do frequent DCQCs. So it might be best to say about 76%.
 
WetEV said:
Silverfish said:
It looks like my car's max GIDs at 100% is currently around 215. That suggests that my battery retains about 76.5% of its original capacity, which is about what I thought.

Just a warning that the BMS GID and other values are not accurate to less than 1%. More like +/- 3% at best, and even less accurate if you do frequent DCQCs. So it might be best to say about 76%.

Good to know. Thanks.
 
New Leaf owner here with a 2019 Leaf S. I have a 60 mile commute and my range meter usually shows 150-180 miles fully charged (which i love by the way). Should I charge daily from 60-70% to 100% or skip a day, get down to 20-30% and then full charge to 100%? Or, mix it up to get a variety? If I have a 4 day weekend, should I just leave it at 60-80% instead of at 100% charge if that fits my drive profile? I know it's not good to spend a lot of time at the very high end or the very low end but I read sometimes a full charge is good to balance the cells. I'm tempted just to use it and not worry about all this, but I wanted to see what you experienced Leaf owners thought was best for battery longevity. Thanks.
 
Should I charge daily from 60-70% to 100% or skip a day, get down to 20-30% and then full charge to 100%? Or, mix it up to get a variety?

Try to keep the state of charge (SOC) above 20% and below 80%, unless you actually need a full charge. In that case set a timer to end charging at 100% shortly before using the car. Lithium batteries don't like sitting at 100% SOC.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Should I charge daily from 60-70% to 100% or skip a day, get down to 20-30% and then full charge to 100%? Or, mix it up to get a variety?

Try to keep the state of charge (SOC) above 20% and below 80%, unless you actually need a full charge. In that case set a timer to end charging at 100% shortly before using the car. Lithium batteries don't like sitting at 100% SOC.


I'm a new Leaf Plus owner, and have a daily commute of about 60 miles round trip. There is one L2 at work that has some problems with availability or trickle charge at home.

Based on this, should I only charge to 80% at work, and then drive home? Or, if I know that I'm about to drive the 30 miles, is it ok to charge it close to 100%, since the drive home should knock it back down to around 80%?

And, what are the ethics/norms of using shared charging stations? Is it more socially acceptable for me to only use the L2 at work every 3 days or so, but sit on the charger for the bulk of the day, or charge more frequently for a shorter period of time. If I notice that the charger is being unused in the afternoon, should I plug in for a few hours, even if I'm only at 70% so that I don't need a longer charge the next time?
 
Try to use the charging station (the actual charger is built into the car) when it isn't in heavy use. You can either charge to 100% or near it right before leaving for home, or every day to 80%, depending on availability. I suggest you speak with the other EV drivers at work, and try to come up with a schedule that works for everyone. You also should really have at least L-1 charging available at home. That requires only a good, unused or used only by a light or two circuit, 15-20 amp.
 
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