Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

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Reddy said:
RegGuheert said:
RegGuheert said:
So now I'm not so sure. As I reported previously, our LEAF has been showing increasing Ah readings recently. Since crossing 50,000 miles on December 7, 2017, at 47.21 Ah, the reported capacity has increased to 48.24 Ah on Februrary 11, 2018, with about 52,000 miles on the odometer.

So, has capacity loss accelerated from 2.2 Ah/10,000 miles (30,000 mi. to 40,000 mi.) to 2.6 Ah/10,000 miles (40,000 mi. to 50,000 mi.) or has it slowed to 1.6 Ah/12,000 miles (40,000 mi. to 52,000 mi.) or both?
Two weeks later, the Ah reading has dropped 1.0 Ah down to 47.28 Ah. It was 80F one day last week, so I guess it decided to head back down.
Reg, I measured my battery yesterday, first time since 11/1/17, and my reading went up slightly from 45.80 (41,700 mi) to 45.91 AHr (44,700 mi). I have increased my driving slightly (750 mi/mo vs. my previous 500 mi/mo normal), so maybe the battery likes being used more. I fully expect to see degradation increase again next month. I recorded about 2 AHr loss last year, and I’m expecting something similar this year. Hopefully it won’t be worse, though the summer could be brutal with more 115 F temps. I think I’m still on target to lose the 4th bar in 2019, so at about 8 years and right around 55,000 mi.
Here's my seven year anniversary report after charging to 100%:
2011 SL received 8/18/11. I'm the original owner. Paid MSRP (no other choice at the time).
9 bars, 47,754 mi, 75 miles on the GOM at full charge.
AHr 44.22, SOH 67%, Hx 46.43%, 85*F temp, 4.092 V, 96.4% SOC
Extrapolating LeafSpy data collected over the past four years, I'm anticipating 8-bars on May 1st, 2019 (7.75 years).
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25454&p=534925#p534925
 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/2134533076578118/?comment_id=2134728723225220&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D has a pic of some in the Seattle Leaf group with only 5 bars.

I don't know his story, but I think I have met him before when I lived in the PNW, so I assume the car's always resided in the PNW. Maybe DaveInOlyWA knows?
 
RelaxedGal said:
I feel like I'm closing in on that 4th bar. I have a feeling it will be December of this year.

Good guess! I lost my 9th bar this morning, November 18 2018. Happy 7th birthday baby! :lol:

My car has just over 72,000 miles.
 
Wow this is maybe the longest string I have ever seen on a board. So I only found My Nissan leaf board recently, but we bought our Ocean Blue 2011 in December and loved the car. It is my wife's daily driver and for the first 5 years she owned it she had a power source at work so always easy to keep it juiced up. We live in Half Moon Bay, CA where the coldest winter I ever spent was the summer in Half Moon Bay (stolen from Mark Twain's line about SF). We lost our first bar after year 2 and then lost a few more. I took the car into the dealership as part of the front end maintenance package and informed them that our range was really bad. I heard a few things about the AZ Batteries but didn't realize that the issue was a design flaw.

So here I am today, not a Leaf fan anymore, still love the way the car drives and the reliablity has been impressive at 65k not real issues to resolve other than my battery has about 35 miles or range and my wife is hypermiling to work everday where she no longer has a charger.

Help is coming in the way of aftermarket batteries

https://fenix.systems/leafbattery

check these guys out, they plan to build a liquid cooled battery system that can be "rented" or owned and range from the meager 24 all the way to 65 khw batteries that will give the old 2011 a 200+ mile range for about the same price that Nissan is asking for the 105 mile replacement. Since I cannot wait he's taking my car as a donor for 1+ year to get it working, I am actually going to lease another Leaf in the meantime for the wife. I hate to say it but i wouldn't EVER EVER buy an electric car that doesn't feature a liquid cooling system, which every other 100% EV has except the Leaf.

I am happy to have found this board and thread. Check this guys website out, when he brings this to market it will be a game changer and can save 1000's of Leaf owners from having to tow their completely useless cars to the wrecking yard.
 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/NissanLeafOwners/permalink/2333759280055381/?sale_post_id=2333759280055381 currently has a guy trying to sell a '12 Leaf SL in Mississippi with only 5 capacity bars remaining (7 bar loser) at just past 60K miles. He's asking for $5K which is way too high considering it only has 5 bars and has a bunch of scrapes all over the place and messed up spoiler paint, it seems.
 
badq45t said:
Help is coming in the way of aftermarket batteries

https://fenix.systems/leafbattery


I am happy to have found this board and thread. Check this guys website out, when he brings this to market it will be a game changer and can save 1000's of Leaf owners from having to tow their completely useless cars to the wrecking yard.

Good information on fenix;

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26597
 
Marktm said:
Good information on fenix;

I'm not sure what Fenix is.

Building a battery isn't simple. BMS is complex, easy to get wrong. Water needs to be excluded from the batteries. Lots of current and voltages.

I've seen nothing to make me believe that Fenix has the engineering resources to make a safe, reliable battery pack.

Sure, I'd love to see third party supply of battery packs. But only if they are at least as good as the OEM packs.
 
Agreed - my hope is that they produce a higher quality, more heat resistant battery pack that also supports bidirectional energy through the CHAdeMO port in an accessible manner. Quite a tall order. My replacement Lizard battery pack is degrading at a 8% (plus) rate of ahrs per year. I've decided the $150 is worth the risk of their success.

Bysinger appears to be very dedicated to making this happen - but time will tell.
 
Update on my 2012 Leaf with a "Lizard" replacement battery in Nov. 2016. Lost the first bar today at about 53.3 amp-hours. About 9% AH battery loss per year. No quick charges, garage kept, battery temps in mid 80s to low 90s most of the summer.

The chart:
Battery log 3.13.19.jpg
 
Marktm said:
Agreed - my hope is that they produce a higher quality, more heat resistant battery pack that also supports bidirectional energy through the CHAdeMO port in an accessible manner.

All LEAFs built since 2015 support bidirectional charging, but in the US the focus of this feature is for commercial fleet usage to help companies mitigate peak usage demand charges. There are no plans to provide consumer facing applications.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Is your garage un-cooled, partially cooled, or air conditioned? If un-cooled and you get breezes, you may want to park it outside, at least at night.

It's a separate, unconditioned garage. What I've determined, using my thermal "gun" is that the garage floor temp remains much cooler than the concrete driveway that is exposed to the sun and tended to keep the battery cooler than the day time ambients (95+oF often!). Sort of a heat sink during the entire summer. The worst case was when forced to park long periods out of the shade in direct sun during the summer - especially on black pavement - battery would get into high 90's.
 
OrientExpress said:
All LEAFs built since 2015 support bidirectional charging, but in the US the focus of this feature is for commercial fleet usage to help companies mitigate peak usage demand charges. There are no plans to provide consumer facing applications.

If you could PM me on this topic - I'd like to discuss in more detail.
Mark
 
OrientExpress said:
Marktm said:
Agreed - my hope is that they produce a higher quality, more heat resistant battery pack that also supports bidirectional energy through the CHAdeMO port in an accessible manner.

All LEAFs built since 2015 support bidirectional charging, but in the US the focus of this feature is for commercial fleet usage to help companies mitigate peak usage demand charges. There are no plans to provide consumer facing applications.

But if you bought a magnum power or other bidirectional V2G charger, it would work, right?
 
Lothsahn said:
But if you bought a magnum power or other bidirectional V2G charger, it would work, right?

Can you send me a link to such a CHAdeMO and/or CCS based bidirectional energy converter with grid protection? I've been looking for several years for a commercial offering (that does not cost $100,000 :mrgreen: ).
 
Marktm said:
Lothsahn said:
But if you bought a magnum power or other bidirectional V2G charger, it would work, right?

Can you send me a link to such a CHAdeMO and/or CCS based bidirectional energy converter with grid protection? I've been looking for several years for a commercial offering (that does not cost $100,000 :mrgreen: ).

I've found two offerings that look good:
https://nuvve.com/
- Not available yet, but targeting residential

https://magnumcap.com/en/products/mc-v2g/
The MC-V2G is actually the unit that Nissan is currently showing off, but whitelabeled

I did contact this company and got pricing. Since it's not on their website, I won't publish it, but you could reach out and talk to them. I will say its price may interest you.

I don't know if these units are purely V2G or if they can install with a transfer switch as well to provide backup power. If you could buy a 40 kWh Leaf and use it for backup power for your home in the case of an outage, it's really compelling.

I'm looking at these solutions because it'd be cheaper to buy a 40 kWh Leaf than 4 powerwalls, and if it provided backup power in the case of an outage, I'd have a backup power solution that I could also drive around. Better yet, buy a wrecked 2018 Leaf for $8k with a functioning CHADEMO port and battery, and permanently park it in your Garage. The possibilities are quite intriguing.
 
Lothsahn said:
I've found two offerings that look good:
https://nuvve.com/
- Not available yet, but targeting residential

https://magnumcap.com/en/products/mc-v2g/
The MC-V2G is actually the unit that Nissan is currently showing off, but whitelabeled

I don't know if these units are purely V2G or if they can install with a transfer switch as well to provide backup power. If you could buy a 40 kWh Leaf and use it for backup power for your home in the case of an outage, it's really compelling.

I'm looking at these solutions because it'd be cheaper to buy a 40 kWh Leaf than 4 powerwalls, and if it provided backup power in the case of an outage, I'd have a backup power solution that I could also drive around. Better yet, buy a wrecked 2018 Leaf for $8k with a functioning CHADEMO port and battery, and permanently park it in your Garage. The possibilities are quite intriguing.


Thanks - I am somewhat familiar with the Nuvve work - trying to find more about the AC unit and it's functionality, i.e. does it require a "converter" in the EV itself, since it appears to be a bidirectional charge controller. Also, can it be configured as grid disconnect/transfer - for back up).

The Magnum Cap does look interesting - I'll followup and let you know if learning anything important. I totally agree on "backup" in case of outages. A reasonably priced alternative that is potentially DC coupled with solar..... maybe someday!
 
Marktm said:
Thanks - I am somewhat familiar with the Nuvve work - trying to find more about the AC unit and it's functionality, i.e. does it require a "converter" in the EV itself, since it appears to be a bidirectional charge controller. Also, can it be configured as grid disconnect/transfer - for back up).

My understanding is that the 2015+ Leafs support bidirectional Chademo, although I've seen posts of 2013+ and 2014+. If that's correct, I think a compatible V2G charger shouldn't require any special hardware or converters in the EV itself.

Details from Nuuve are quite light as they're still in startup mode. I don't know if they're only offering time shifting or if they also are providing disconnect/transfer for backups.
 
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