LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13436
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buying Nissan Leaf as my first EV

Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:25 pm

sbuhler wrote:I actually stopped and looked at that one on one Sunday when the dealership was closed. It is in nice shape; not sure about SOH or anything like that because the dealership was closed.
Used Leafs tend to look very nice as a general rule, because they are usually driven fewer miles by people who don't view them as just transportation. You really need to see, at the very least, the capacity gauge that consists of 12 short bars just past the ends of the larger charge bars. A Leaf can always charge to 12 bars, but as capacity falls the little bars vanish and don't return unless the battery management system is reset - in which case they return for a few weeks or so. I would suggest you assume that a car showing 12 capacity bars is really closer to 11, unless you can use LeafSpy. Sadly, though, even LeafSpy can be tricked by a recent BMS reset...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

ipuzunov
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 am
Delivery Date: 05 Oct 2018

Re: Buying Nissan Leaf as my first EV

Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:42 am

Just looking at the mileage, I thought this particular car hasn't even started showing signs of battery degradation. The bad thing is that Nissan dealership in my country won't honor the battery warranty for Leafs prior to 2018, because it has started selling this model from the second generation.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13436
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buying Nissan Leaf as my first EV

Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:36 am

Just looking at the mileage, I thought this particular car hasn't even started showing signs of battery degradation.
That is definitely NOT how it works. You can have a Leaf with 50,000 miles on it and 95% remaining capacity, and you can have one with 10,000 miles and 80% remaining capacity - or less. It depends on what generation battery it has, how hot that battery has gotten and how often, what state of charge it is typically stored at, and in the case of the first generation packs especially, how old the pack is.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 9807
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Buying Nissan Leaf as my first EV

Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:59 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Just looking at the mileage, I thought this particular car hasn't even started showing signs of battery degradation.
That is definitely NOT how it works. You can have a Leaf with 50,000 miles on it and 95% remaining capacity, and you can have one with 10,000 miles and 80% remaining capacity - or less. It depends on what generation battery it has, how hot that battery has gotten and how often, what state of charge it is typically stored at, and in the case of the first generation packs especially, how old the pack is.
Yep.

When Leaf had been out only about 21 months, we'd already known of a car w/29K miles in blazing hot Phoenix that was down 4 capacity bars: https://web.archive.org/web/20160113132 ... p?p=228326. http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Batt ... y_Behavior was a table from the '11 service manual that disappeared from later ones.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 69#p496269 shows a contrast between a '13 of an unknown build month in the mild Pacific NW vs. one of a better chemistry (built 5/2013) in Phoenix. My '13 Leaf is also built 5/2013 and I posted my 1st bar loss at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 15#p511915. I'm in a hotter part of the SF Bay Area. I still have 11 bars at nearly 60K miles and Leaf Spy SOH is now hovering around 82.xx% to 84.xx% or so. The Phoenician guy lost his 4th bar on 8/23/16 at 31.4K miles.

I just posted at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 55#p537955 about a guy in the UK w/a '14 Leaf that just passed 100K miles with all 12 capacity bars remaining.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

WetEV
Posts: 3205
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Buying Nissan Leaf as my first EV

Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:19 am

LeftieBiker wrote:They carefully avoided showing photos of the battery display, so I'd guess that like many 2016 Leafs it has already lost one or more capacity bars. As I said, there is a software update to "fix" this issue, but it has still not been proven
Other than by independent third party testing.

https://flipthefleet.org/2018/30-kwh-ni ... reporting/

Why must you run down Nissan without pointing to test results?

Yes, battery life is still somewhat unknown for any EV battery that hasn't been out of years. True for Nissan, true for Tesla, true for any manufacturer. The first battery didn't do so well, but the 24kWh 2015 and later have done well. Yes, Nissan did suggest better life than was achieved for the first battery. A mistake, for sure.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

ipuzunov
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 am
Delivery Date: 05 Oct 2018

Re: Buying Nissan Leaf as my first EV

Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:43 am

You're very helpful on this forum.
Do you suggest that I should be looking to buy a 24KWh 2015+ rather than the 30KWh battery?

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Buying Nissan Leaf as my first EV

Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:43 am

RonDawg wrote:Your friend in the USA needs to pick up a compatible OBDII dongle (which one depends on which type of smartphone he uses) and purchase a software program such as LeafSpy. This is critical whenever buying a used Leaf, because unscrupulous dealers can (and have) reset the computer to make it look like the car has "all 12 bars." This eventually corrects itself, but often not until after you've had the car for a short time.
The reset also fools LeafSpy
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
Posts: 3205
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Buying Nissan Leaf as my first EV

Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:26 am

ipuzunov wrote:You're very helpful on this forum.
Do you suggest that I should be looking to buy a 24KWh 2015+ rather than the 30KWh battery?
Probably slightly lower risk, looking just at the battery. Price, features and needs might change that answer.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13436
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buying Nissan Leaf as my first EV

Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:24 pm

WetEV wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:They carefully avoided showing photos of the battery display, so I'd guess that like many 2016 Leafs it has already lost one or more capacity bars. As I said, there is a software update to "fix" this issue, but it has still not been proven
Other than by independent third party testing.

https://flipthefleet.org/2018/30-kwh-ni ... reporting/

Why must you run down Nissan without pointing to test results?

Yes, battery life is still somewhat unknown for any EV battery that hasn't been out of years. True for Nissan, true for Tesla, true for any manufacturer. The first battery didn't do so well, but the 24kWh 2015 and later have done well. Yes, Nissan did suggest better life than was achieved for the first battery. A mistake, for sure.
We have at least two people posting here who got the "update" and didn't regain range or any permanent capacity. As I've written, the update may help some cars with defective BMS firmware but not others. Why do you keep trying to get people to buy cars that may have terrible batteries, because of one published dyno test on a small number of cars? Are you going to refund their money if they get stuck with 10 bar cars?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

WetEV
Posts: 3205
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Buying Nissan Leaf as my first EV

Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:47 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Why do you keep trying to get people to buy cars that may have terrible batteries, because of one published dyno test on a small number of cars? Are you going to refund their money if they get stuck with 10 bar cars?
Are you going to refund their money if they buy a Tesla and it turns out to have lousy batteries and Tesla goes bankrupt? Nissan is on the hook for 8 years/100k miles.

What I'm suggesting is you try a little harder for balance. Don't forget to mention test results and warranty.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

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