Nissan won't replace my battery under warranty !!!

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TomT said:
No, but foisting off a defective battery on them and then not standing behind it certainly does!

Nubo said:
The original battery replacement price was subsidized. Nissan was providing the service at a loss. Ending the subsidy doesn't constitute poor treatment of customers.

Far from it. They stood behind the battery with a warranty, which even applied to OP's purchase of a USED car whereby the weak battery was already factored into the purchase price. This goose was ready to lay a Golden Egg. All OP had to do was pick it up. Makes no sense. But... a promotional link by the way....
 
Nubo said:
TomT said:
No, but foisting off a defective battery on them and then not standing behind it certainly does!

Nubo said:
The original battery replacement price was subsidized. Nissan was providing the service at a loss. Ending the subsidy doesn't constitute poor treatment of customers.

Far from it. They stood behind the battery with a warranty, which even applied to OP's purchase of a USED car whereby the weak battery was already factored into the purchase price. This goose was ready to lay a Golden Egg. All OP had to do was pick it up. Makes no sense. But... a promotional link by the way....

No. That warranty that they used to "stand behind" the battery was imposed on them by a class action lawsuit.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Nubo said:
TomT said:
No, but foisting off a defective battery on them and then not standing behind it certainly does!

Far from it. They stood behind the battery with a warranty, which even applied to OP's purchase of a USED car whereby the weak battery was already factored into the purchase price. This goose was ready to lay a Golden Egg. All OP had to do was pick it up. Makes no sense. But... a promotional link by the way....

No. That warranty that they used to "stand behind" the battery was imposed on them by a class action lawsuit.
Right. And this business of the $5k price being "subsidized" is unsubstantiated. I'm much more inclined to think that the current pricing has a hefty profit margin for Nissan since they can presumably buy cells for way under $200 a kWh just like everybody else, yet they want ~ $350/kWh for replacement. $350 a kWh retail is what Tesla charges for their liquid cooled, advanced cell, range upgrade on the Model 3, and they are upfront in saying it is very profitable.
 
SageBrush said:
Right. And this business of the $5k price being "subsidized" is unsubstantiated.
They've claimed the were subventing: https://insideevs.com/nissan-says-leaf-battery-replacement-money-loser/.
SageBrush said:
I'm much more inclined to think that the current pricing has a hefty profit margin for Nissan since they can presumably buy cells for way under $200 a kWh just like everybody else, yet they want
Who sells these cells that are of the correct design and form factor that are qualified to work in a Leaf? There not only needs to be the cells, but also the modules they go in + the rest of the hardware that goes into the pack besides the casing + assembly and shipping costs + labor of removing the old pack and installing the new one.
SageBrush said:
~ $350/kWh for replacement. $350 a kWh retail is what Tesla charges for their liquid cooled, advanced cell, range upgrade on the Model 3, and they are upfront in saying it is very profitable.
I'm hearing prices of $7K to $7.5K (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25882&p=537280&hilit=facebook+%247K#p537280) which sounds like it includes labor from a well-known Leaf tech in the PNW. $7500 w/labor would put it at $312.50 per kWh. I'm not saying the price is good though.

Hahaha about "profitable". Got it, Tesla's "profitable" even though they've never had an entire profitable year yet, have lost almost $6 billion in net income (including the 2 profitable quarters) while having racked up over $10 billion in debt.
 
SageBrush said:
cwerdna said:
Hahaha about "profitable". Got it,
No, you do not "get it."

Battery upgrade margin
Oh I get it. But there are other pesky expenses that need to be covered like R&D, SG&A, interest expense, etc., like any other automaker. If Tesla were selling their vehicles and options at prices that enabled them to be profitable or at least breakeven and on a consistent basis... For the 1st half of 2018, they lost over $1.5 billion (page 5 of http://ir.tesla.com/node/18946/html). We'll hear about their most recent quarter's earnings (or lack of?) within about a month or so.

Not like they started a few years ago. They were founded in 2003.
 
SageBrush said:
The battery. Not the company.

THE BATTERY
So what? It tells me they've underpriced what they're selling then. They sell a whole bunch of things (cars, options on cars, solar systems, Powerwalls, etc.) that are "profitable" yet they're bleeding virtually every single quarter they've been reporting publicly. They IPOed in 2010. IIRC, they also publicly reported their earnings for the year before that. Before that, we don't know other than they were a loss-making company.
 
SageBrush said:
So Nissan is selling the battery for way over the marginal cost.
We don't know this. We do know they claim they were losing at $5499 at the time they revealed the price.

See my earlier comment at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=537925#p537925. If nobody can supply them those cheap cells as you claim (you'd still need to account for the other costs) or it's not worth all the engineering, validation and regulatory effort to incorporate those, then it's back to what AESC can produce it for. Remember, the quantity demanded even at $5499 (pack only) is likely to be very low. Not many folks here or on any Leaf FB groups have been willing to pay full price for a replacement pack. And, given that Nissan is dumping most of AESC, perhaps they weren't cost competitive?

Again, I'm not saying the price is good or that I like the price increase...
 
Nissan retroactively offered the capacity warranty that came standard on 2013 models to registered owners of 2011 and 2012 models months before the class action suit documents were sent to those same owners by the plaintiff attorneys. Nissan actually replaced the battery in my 2011 before the first proposed settlement went to court. That proposed settlement was rejected by the court because it would have done little for most owners. The revised settlement which was ultimately approved by the court required the replacement batteries for 2011 and 2012 models (covered by the class action) to be of the latest chemistry, but owners accepting the settlement waived their future rights to sue Nissan over battery issues. The settlement was a big win for Nissan and the plaintiff attorneys at the expense of the owners. I opted out of the original proposed settlement and remained opted out of the final settlement, but it became a moot point since the car was totaled before I had any more battery issues.

Edited to clarify that class action only applied to 2011 through 2012 models and fix a typographical error.
 
If Nissan North America really cares about their customers like their parent company Nissan Japan, they should offer the same refurbish battery program they're offering in Japan for less than $3000. I called Nissan US customer care after I saw this report a couple months ago, and they said they're not considering offering such program in the US. I have an iPhone 6 and when people found out Apple was throttling their older iPhones to prevent shut down, Apple offered to replace older iPhone batteries at $29 instead of $79, that's caring about their customers. By not offering the same refurbish battery program like Japan, I do feel all Nissan US cares about it profit and not customers. Like I said, I owned 3 Nissans before, never again.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1116042_nissan-leaf-refurbished-batteries-offered-for-older-electric-cars-in-japan
 
LeftieBiker said:
Nubo said:
TomT said:
No, but foisting off a defective battery on them and then not standing behind it certainly does!

Far from it. They stood behind the battery with a warranty, which even applied to OP's purchase of a USED car whereby the weak battery was already factored into the purchase price. This goose was ready to lay a Golden Egg. All OP had to do was pick it up. Makes no sense. But... a promotional link by the way....

No. That warranty that they used to "stand behind" the battery was imposed on them by a class action lawsuit.

The origin of the warranty doesn't negate my statement. OP was not mistreated.
 
GerryAZ said:
The revised ettlement which was ultimately approved by the court required the replacement batteries to be of the latest chemistry, but owners accepting the settlement waived their future rights to sue Nissan over battery issues. The settlement was a big win for Nissan and the plaintiff attorneys at the expense of the owners.
I don't view it that way, except for the 'capacity bar' loophole that Nissan subsequently exploited.
 
SageBrush said:
GerryAZ said:
The revised ettlement which was ultimately approved by the court required the replacement batteries to be of the latest chemistry, but owners accepting the settlement waived their future rights to sue Nissan over battery issues. The settlement was a big win for Nissan and the plaintiff attorneys at the expense of the owners.
I don't view it that way, except for the 'capacity bar' loophole that Nissan subsequently exploited.

The P3227 software update that improved the accuracy of the dashboard (and CAN Bus) information related to the traction battery on 2011 and 2012 models was issued before the retroactive warranty and the class action lawsuit. That software update was performed on my car after it was down to 8 capacity bars. It did not change the capacity bar level, but greatly improved the accuracy of the instrumentation. Since the class action lawsuit only applied to 2011 and 2012 cars, it has no bearing on the rights and responsibilities of Nissan and owners related to 2013 and later cars. I stand by my opinion that the class action settlement was a big win for Nissan and the plaintiff attorneys at the expense of original and subsequent owners of 2011 and 2012 LEAFs.
 
Marktm said:
Curiosity - Does the "logging" of data (routinely done by all of our Leafs) in any way prove that the capacity bars are activated under certain conditions and at a certain date?

I don't know, but Nissan EV Customer Service called me some time after my second annual battery test (in June of 2013) and asked me to take it to my dealer for additional testing so they could initiate battery replacement. I had planned to wait until range became an issue before asking, but Nissan initiated the replacement after testing.
 
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