Astros
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Leaf Number: 310136
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:19 am

A few items to consider adding a note about:

For a used Leaf, check the Carfax report to see if the Leaf was ever registered in a hot state.

When checking the battery capacity with Leafspy, I think the number of L1/L2 and L3 charging sessions also gets reset. So, you should be able to tell if the BMS has been reset if those numbers are really low but the car has significant mileage.

In colder states, the heated seats/steering wheel and heat pump will save a ton of range in the winter.

Don't trust the dealer to know what they are talking about with an electric car! Make sure to check the charge ports to make sure the quick charge port is really there.
2019 Deep Blue SL Plus

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jlv
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Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:34 am

Astros wrote:When checking the battery capacity with Leafspy, I think the number of L1/L2 and L3 charging sessions also gets reset. So, you should be able to tell if the BMS has been reset
This is not correct.
Last edited by jlv on Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
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WetEV
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Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:56 am

LeftieBiker wrote: HOWEVER...


4. Leaf Capacity Bars Can Be Reset! Dishonest sellers and wholesalers, and even unknowing dealership technicians, can cause the Battery Management System (aka "BMS") to reset itself. When this happens even a Leaf with several capacity bars gone will, for roughly a few weeks, show a full 12 bars until the BMS relearns the actual capacity. This can even fool LeafSpy, especially if a reading is taken soon after the reset. If a Leaf seems to have more bars than it should (Hot climate, older Leaf, test drive that seems to use up charge very quickly) then a reset should be suspected, and the car's history investigated. Remember, a cardinal rule of shopping for any car should apply: If the car seems too good for the price and capacity reading, or if you are suspicious of the seller or even just the car, PASS!
4. LeafSpy Basics and Capacity Bars LeafSpy reads out the Battery Management System (aka "BMS") current estimate of battery capacity. This estimate can be raised and lowered with different driving and charging habits, as well as the seasonal cycle of slighter higher in the winter and slightly lower in summer. Even worse, some procedures for fixing or updating the car may reset the BMS. Worse still, dishonest sellers and wholesalers can cause the BMS to reset to values similar to a new battry. When this happens even a Leaf with several capacity bars gone will, for roughly a few weeks, show a full 12 bars until the BMS relearns the actual capacity. This can even fool LeafSpy, especially if a reading is taken soon after the reset. If a Leaf seems to have more bars than it should (Hot climate, older Leaf, test drive that seems to use up charge very quickly) then a reset should be suspected, and the car's history investigated. Remember, a cardinal rule of shopping for any car should apply: If the car seems too good for the price and capacity reading, or if you are suspicious of the seller or even just the car, PASS!
LeftieBiker wrote: This piece gives Nissan's side:

http://www.cleanfleetreport.com/exclusi ... ttery-fix/
That's a 404, currently. Please fix the link.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:06 pm

That link worked when posted. The piece appears to have been pulled. Maybe I'll just swap in the dyno test link. I'll get to the other suggestions tonight. I'm not sure I want to get into the smaller changes in SOH from different driving habits: this is supposed to be a guide to help people avoid the worst pitfalls when Leaf shopping. I will include something about range needs and seasonal drops in range, and about checking where the car was first driven.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
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cwerdna
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Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:40 pm

^^^
Perhaps the link was bad? There shouldn't be ... in the middle of a URL.

Did you mean http://www.cleanfleetreport.com/exclusi ... ttery-fix/ ?
Last edited by cwerdna on Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

'19 Bolt Premier
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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:17 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:I'm not sure I want to get into the smaller changes in SOH from different driving habits
I've taken my SOH down 3% by slow charging and driving. I've taken my SOH up by over 10% by DCQC and faster driving.

Maybe smaller, in that a reset will take a 7 bar or less to full 12 bars with pegged SOH. I've not tried that, as I don't have a LEAF with that degraded of a battery. But perhaps important to point out that a grain of salt is always in order.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:55 pm

cwerdna wrote:^^^
Perhaps the link was bad? There shuoldn't be ... in the middle of a URL.

Did you mean http://www.cleanfleetreport.com/exclusi ... ttery-fix/ ?
The link worked when I tested it, but that may be a quirk of the site. I'll fix it.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:04 am

Bump. I'm just about done with this. The idea is to have a document that can be reposted (by others) to sites like Facebook so people have this information BEFORE they start looking to buy. Final comments, please.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

BuckMkII
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Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:16 am

How about "Replacement 24 kWh batteries are currently $8500. Don't buy a Leaf thinking you will replace the battery, because even if they are still available, you will almost certainly not be willing to pay that much for such a limited battery when the time comes. Consider a Leaf a disposable commodity."
2013 SV no QC, built July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17: AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250
bar 12 lost 8/21/17
on 12/25/18: AHr = 55.5; SOH = 84.9 %; Hx = 80.3; ODO = 53,018

Astros
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Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:54 am

jlv wrote:
Astros wrote:When checking the battery capacity with Leafspy, I think the number of L1/L2 and L3 charging sessions also gets reset. So, you should be able to tell if the BMS has been reset
This is not correct.
I'm sorry, I must have misremembered that.
2019 Deep Blue SL Plus

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