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Getting the tax rebate makes some sense but since the EVSE cable is not included it seems the only additional benefits are 1) a (possibly new) circuit for the EVSE is not needed and 2) some EVSE energy use monitoring is available. All in all, that doesn't seem like much of an advantage. Or maybe I'm just missing it?
 
Well, here are the numbers quoted - the inverter will add $750 to my solar install. I will get tax incentive of an additional $750.

I won't need to pay for NEMA circuit install (quoted $985-$1250 depending on distance of outlet) and I won't need a Juicebox EVSE box (or similar), running $500-$600.

Ashley
 
TheMagster said:
So effectively you're paying $825 for the EVSE component of it, which seems pretty steep to me, especially since it isn't portable. It is a 40A EVSE, which is higher than most (can the Leaf handle charging at 40A?).
Thoughts?

No the Leaf will not charge at 40A on L2. The built-in charger in the car will only allow up to 32A charging. Some of the older Leaf's only supported 16A max charging as well.
 
ashdeacon said:
Well, here are the numbers quoted

I see that it makes sense for you. As usual, every situation is different.

I'm planning my solar installation now and it doesn't make sense for me since 1) I don't need a new 50A circuit installed and 2) I don't have an EVSE cable except the portable L1 cable that came with my 2017 Leaf. Also, I do almost all my charging for free at work.

My biggest problem right now is that my electricity usage is too low, so my power company will limit my install size to 2.x KW. The allowable limit for net metering is 120% of my average yearly usage which is under 300kWh/month. I don't really want any incentives from them except net metering but I would like a bigger system. A first world problem for sure but still...

Good luck with your system. Sounds like it will work well for you.
 
I enquired yesterday and my solar provider is providing the cable too in the cost. So probably good to check if you are considering it.
 
goldbrick said:
I see that it makes sense for you. As usual, every situation is different.

I'm planning my solar installation now and it doesn't make sense for me since 1) I don't need a new 50A circuit installed and 2) I don't have an EVSE cable except the portable L1 cable that came with my 2017 Leaf. Also, I do almost all my charging for free at work.

My biggest problem right now is that my electricity usage is too low, so my power company will limit my install size to 2.x KW. The allowable limit for net metering is 120% of my average yearly usage which is under 300kWh/month. I don't really want any incentives from them except net metering but I would like a bigger system. A first world problem for sure but still...

Why would anyone want a system bigger than their needs? I don't know how it works in Colorado, but in CA if you are a net producer utilities buy excess energy at a very low price, so you never get any return on investment you made into excess solar power.
 
Valdemar said:
goldbrick said:
I see that it makes sense for you. As usual, every situation is different.

I'm planning my solar installation now and it doesn't make sense for me since 1) I don't need a new 50A circuit installed and 2) I don't have an EVSE cable except the portable L1 cable that came with my 2017 Leaf. Also, I do almost all my charging for free at work.

My biggest problem right now is that my electricity usage is too low, so my power company will limit my install size to 2.x KW. The allowable limit for net metering is 120% of my average yearly usage which is under 300kWh/month. I don't really want any incentives from them except net metering but I would like a bigger system. A first world problem for sure but still...

Why would anyone want a system bigger than their needs? I don't know how it works in Colorado, but in CA if you are a net producer utilities buy excess energy at a very low price, so you never get any return on investment you made into excess solar power.

I live in Ca & PG&E is my electric utility & is still doing Net Energy Metering so I'm being credited my "retail" price that I'm paying for power for any energy that goes back to the grid.
 
HerdingElectrons said:
I live in Ca & PG&E is my electric utility & is still doing Net Energy Metering so I'm being credited my "retail" price that I'm paying for power for any energy that goes back to the grid.

Credited against usage, yes, but once you've offset your usage you just get a very tiny rate paid to you for over production. Some people have changed their hot water and other big usages to electric to make a bigger system "pay", but natural gas is so cheap that it really doesn't.
 
HerdingElectrons said:
Ah, that makes sense & is very good to know! I have only been on solar for two months as the home I just bought already had it so I'm very much on a learning curve.

Wait until the end of your true up period in ten more months and see where you are. Sizing the system right is crucial for a good ROI, installers have the habit of pushing systems as big as the utility allows which is typically 100% usage offset, this is too much especially if you have an EV that gets normally charged at super off peak rates at night. My system is at about 80% offset yet I ended up with a NEM credit 3 years in a row. That said, the rates and TOU price windows may well change later, but thanks to CPUC it likely won't happen overnight.
 
I am interested in sizing the system right.

I estimated I will do 20k miles per year in my EV. That equates to 5000 kwh approx. My current electric usage is 5500 kwh per year. Maybe I will charge my EV 80% at home vs out-and-about. So that would leave me with a 100% system at 9500 kwh or so.... I was thinking to target a system around 7500 kwh. Sound about right? I suppose the variable is the unknown amount I will charge at home.... but I suppose if I have solar my decision will be easy for most miles.
 
System size is expressed in kW DC - power, not kWh - energy. For starters you need to head to https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/, plug in your location + system orientation and see what size of system (kW) will produce the amount of energy (kWh) per year that you need. If you are in a NEM state and TOU is available to you under NEM you will want to further fine-tune the size, for which you need to understand the TOU rate structure of your utility and your usage patterns throughout the day, with EV added.
 
And just for reference, this how I ended up my last 12-month NEM period.

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What this means our system under-produced 4,156kWh against the total annual usage of about 19,000kWh (ouch!), yet we owe nothing to SCE. In fact, the final bill credit (-$189.63) indicates that I could get away even with a smaller system, under the current TOU rate structure anyway.
 
So under a TOU structure you get more credit for producing during a peak TOU time, just as you would pay more for electric used during the peak time.

I suppose generation of electric is never going to be at off-peak (usually at night).... so there will always be some net-gain due to the TOU structure.

Ashley.
 
ashdeacon said:
So under a TOU structure you get more credit for producing during a peak TOU time, just as you would pay more for electric used during the peak time.

I suppose generation of electric is never going to be at off-peak (usually at night).... so there will always be some net-gain due to the TOU structure.

Ashley.
Here in SDG&E land, Peak was moved to 4PM-9PM, so most of my generation time is now Off-Peak. Worse (from my POV) super off-peak now runs until 2PM on weekends, so much of my weekend generation is now at the lowest rate. Expect such changes everywhere as we go forward. I went from $0 per year to about $500 per year. I since moved to a different rate structure that has a monthly charge in exchange for a lower rate per kWh (but the same TOU periods) that should cut that down to $250/year.
 
davewill said:
Some people have changed their hot water and other big usages to electric to make a bigger system "pay", but natural gas is so cheap that it really doesn't.
But isn't the goal of many people to reduce fossil-fuel usage? It certainly is for me.

In any case, I suspect that the cost to operate a heat-pump water heater from solar is not too different than heating that water using natural gas, even including the additional cost of the equipment. This is particularly true if the homeowner is also running a dehumidifier and/or an air conditioner in the same area where the water heater lives (or could live).
 
Valdemar said:
Sooner or later battery storage will start making more financial sense than it does now.
Agreed. Unfortunately, part of the reason that may/will become true in the future is that the utilities may/will eventually eliminate net metering.

That could be a justification for building a larger system today, even if some of the production benefits others for the near future.
 
RegGuheert said:
davewill said:
Some people have changed their hot water and other big usages to electric to make a bigger system "pay", but natural gas is so cheap that it really doesn't.
But isn't the goal of many people to reduce fossil-fuel usage? It certainly is for me.

In any case, I suspect that the cost to operate a heat-pump water heater from solar is not too different than heating that water using natural gas, even including the additional cost of the equipment. This is particularly true if the homeowner is also running a dehumidifier and/or an air conditioner in the same area where the water heater lives (or could live).

Sure, there are reasons to do it, but I don't think anyone can pay for a bigger system and the new water heater with the savings.
 
davewill said:
Sure, there are reasons to do it, but I don't think anyone can pay for a bigger system and the new water heater with the savings.
You may be right. I don't know what natural gas water heating costs look like, so I can only do the comparison with an electric water heater. Perhaps someone else can give numbers for gas...

Given:
- Cost of a new resistive water heater: $400.00
- Electricity consumption of a resistive water heater: 4600 kWh/year
- Cost of a new heat-pump water heater: $900.00
- Electricity consumption of a heat-pump water heater: 1900 kWh/year
- Life of water heaters is assumed to be the same with no maintenance.
- Annual production of a 1-W PV module (on my house): 1.4 kWh/year
- Cost per kW of PV (installed): $3.00
- Cost of grid electricity: $0.12
- Cost of money: zero

Calculations:
- Initial outlay for resistive approach without solar: $400.00
- Annual outlay for resistive approach without solar: $550.00
- Initial outlay for heat-pump approach with solar: $900 + $3.00*(1900 kWh/year/1.4 kWh/year): $5000.00
- *Minimum* payback time using zero cost of money is: ($5000.00 - $400)/$550.00 = 8.4 years.

All of the above assumes that the price of electricity does not increase over time, but let's assume it is similar to the time value of money. (It's higher than MY TVM, that's for sure!)

Eight-and-a-half year payback is not a no-brainer, but it's a quite reasonable thing to do considering the photovoltaic equipment has a life of about 30 years or so.

So how much does it cost to run a natural gas water heater (50 gallons)? (FWIW, I just used the numbers from the sticker on the side of the water heaters for my calculations.)
 
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