Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

NissanClient73 said:

Correct. I have no written prove that extended warranty covers the battery degradation. Although, I have a prove that the case was opened for “battery replacement under warranty”. It was opened by Nissan. I believe that Nissan should reopen the case and fulfill their original promise to replace the battery.

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Why open a case if there is nothing to decide or discuss? If it were that easy, they would have simply ordered a battery, right?

I am guessing they were looking into the discounted exchange program which was active at the time. You did need to ask for that.

The fact a case was opened means very little. My case was opened but promptly closed. I had to fight through BBB to get the pack replaced.

When I purchased my 2011 and again when I purchased my 2015 I was required to sign and date Nissan disclosure forms discussing battery deterioration (one document) and range under various conditions (another document). I suspect everyone did (whether they read them or not). My 2011 traveled 71.8 miles during the Phoenix Range Test (Silver 679) when it had 10 capacity bars (2 lost) at 100 km/hr (about 62 mi/hr) with no HVAC use. That is quite close to the 73 miles listed on the window sticker even with significant capacity loss. I also drove it over 100 miles on a charge after the battery was replaced (just so I could say that it is possible) at slow speed.

GerryAZ said:

When I purchased my 2011 and again when I purchased my 2015 I was required to sign and date Nissan disclosure forms discussing battery deterioration (one document) and range under various conditions (another document). I suspect everyone did (whether they read them or not).

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I leased a '13 for 2 years back in July 2013 and I think I still have a folder with that paperwork, not filled out and not signed.

I full well knew what I was getting into since I've been here in mid-2011, knew about the Phoenix capacity loss fiasco and loaned some equipment to surfingslovak for the range test before he flew over to Phoenix. I met at Turbo3's house as he lives very near me.

I am pleasantly surprised that the 4/2013+ batteries seem to be holding up better than the crap pre-4/2013 batteries. I had no way of knowing that when I leased the above lease. I believe it wasn't really known either when I bought my used 5/2013 built '13 in July 2015. Back then, I figured I'd be done more capacity bars than am I now. I only lost my 1st bar in Nov 2017 at ~46K miles.

I am pleasantly surprised that the 4/2013+ batteries seem to be holding up better than the crap pre-4/2011 batteries. I had no way of knowing that when I leased the above lease. I believe it wasn't really known either when I bought my used 5/2013 built '13 in July 2015. Back then, I figured I'd be done more capacity bars than am I now. I only lost my 1st bar in Nov 2017 at ~46K miles.

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I think it was the Fall of 2015 that the auction listed was posted that gave the first indication here that the early 2013 builds were crap. BTW, I just did my last LeafSpy reading on my "ANA" (named by the NY DMV via license plate) before I turn her in soon, and the numbers are as follows:

SOH = 88.91%

Hx = 85.92

AH = 58.15

I had no idea how lucky I was getting an April build! Only ~12-14% capacity lost over 5 years.

Mine Came with a 106 Mile Range on the Sticker and Real world use. For the First year it was able to do more than 100 miles before a charge in Real World driving. Now its down to about 30 miles. 9 bars showing. No Heat issues..

I must say its very sad to see the Nissan Shrills try to defend Posters that are sadden about the Range of the 2011 LEAF. To make it 1000% Clear See the window Sticker from my 2011 LEAF attached.. By this reasoning we shoudl be able to expect a Minimum of 96 miles on a charge. and a Max of 110 miles..

And with that Nissan Shoudl be making an offer to help us Early Adopters with a new Traction Pack.. As it was us that gave them all the Real world Data they needed to improve the pack and the newer leafs.

thew said:

Mine Came with a 106 Mile Range on the Sticker and Real world use.
...

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I have no idea where your sticker came from but it's unlikely it came with a sticker claiming 106 mile range.

See https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2011-nissan-leaf-epa-ratings-released, for example. It clearly lists 73 miles range on a charge. The 106 and 92 numbers are the useless MPGe numbers, NOT range.

I found another copy at http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/13173823-2011-Nissan-LEAF-Window-Sticker, which confirms the same thing.

Did you grab your image from a 30 kWh ('16 SV, '16 SL, '16 "S 30" or '17) Leaf?

The two links Cwerdna posted match the window sticker for my 2011. As shown, EPA rating of 73 miles per charge. The 2015 was rated at 84 miles (probably due to more aggressive regeneration) on the city driving cycle. My experience is that steady speed range was the same for both cars when new, but the 2015 battery did not deteriorate as fast.

GerryAZ said:

The two links Cwerdna posted match the window sticker for my 2011. As shown, EPA rating of 73 miles per charge. The 2015 was rated at 84 miles (probably due to more aggressive regeneration) on the city driving cycle. My experience is that steady speed range was the same for both cars when new, but the 2015 battery did not deteriorate as fast.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20150330024134/https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/e_powertrain.html and https://web.archive.org/web/20160306132625/http://www.saegtl.org/ev/data/uploads/ev-content/gtlev_tp_2014-01-1879.pdf has some details about the motor changes made for model year '13.

'13 Leaf would also achieve 84 miles at 100% charge on the EPA test but got bit by the 80/100% averaging rule, so Nissan removed the ability to charging to 80% starting w/US model year 2014.
https://insideevs.com/2013-nissan-leaf-rated-at-75-miles-but-84-miles-using-the-old-system/
https://insideevs.com/2014-nissan-leaf-mostly-unchanged-as-range-technically-moves-up-to-84-miles/

And one can see the various EPA range ratings of the '11, '13, '14 and '15 Leafs: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=30979&id=33558&id=34699&id=34918 of 73, 75, 84 and 84 miles, respectively.

My 2011leaf up until this last year had no issue at all maintaining its 100 miles range that it always had. Only in this last year has the pack fallen now behind. Still lovein it!.

thew said:

My 2011leaf up until this last year had no issue at all maintaining its 100 miles range that it always had. Only in this last year has the pack fallen now behind. Still lovein it!.

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How many miles?

you mean on my LEAF now ?
its only about 28,000 . It gets used every day but now we live 7 miles from work. So it does about 3, trips a day at average 14 miles a trip. (42ish miles a day).
Ii has always been in Mild Climates as well.. And its always lived up a big hill to get home.. Here I have to climb a 1000 foot hill to get to the garage. So I get lots of regen on the way into work. All in All its is doing very well .. However I do wish that at its Miles currently the battery woudl be in better shape.. I do believe the fact that it has always lived up a hill forcing the battery to work very hard just at the end of every trip may be a degradation factor.

cwerdna said:

thew said:

Mine Came with a 106 Mile Range on the Sticker and Real world use.
...

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I have no idea where your sticker came from but it's unlikely it came with a sticker claiming 106 mile range.

See https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2011-nissan-leaf-epa-ratings-released, for example. It clearly lists 73 miles range on a charge. The 106 and 92 numbers are the useless MPGe numbers, NOT range.

I found another copy at http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/13173823-2011-Nissan-LEAF-Window-Sticker, which confirms the same thing.

Did you grab your image from a 30 kWh ('16 SV, '16 SL, '16 "S 30" or '17) Leaf?

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Incorrect !.
IT came from the Window of MY 2011 LEAF. Along with the Dealer Lot Sticker. All LEAFS at the time had that Sticker sold in CA.
And That was part of the EPA doing when trying to devise a Standard. Realize mine was one of the First Lots in the USA. The Very first LEAF was washed off the Dock in the 2011 Tsunami.. So this was the replacement they found for that.

just got off the phone with Nissan/Travis at 877-664-2738

he claims there is no such program and anything I read on the internet isn't factual unless it's posted on Nissan's US website.

He offer me a replacement battery for $6,500 or I could finance it - there is _NO_ prorated out of warranty assistance program.

grrrr - soooo. frustrated right now.

daveo4leaf said:

just got off the phone with Nissan/Travis at 877-664-2738

he claims there is no such program
He offer me a replacement battery for $6,500 or I could finance it.

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Correct on both counts, although keep in mind the extra cost of installation.

I find it hard to believe the thew's range dropped from 100 miles to 30 miles within a year, that can't be due to degradation alone. Probably should looking at faulty cells, and that's covered by the defective warranty.

hmmwv said:

I find it hard to believe the thew's range dropped from 100 miles to 30 miles within a year, that can't be due to degradation alone. Probably should looking at faulty cells, and that's covered by the defective warranty.

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IT did this over 12 years.. not sure where you got the idea of 1 year. Sadly now though Nissan Lied to all of us in 2011 when they said we could easily and affordably replace our Traction Pack. The cost went from 3500, 6500, 8500 now up to 15,000 and my Leaf is now in need of a new pack. Nissan never ever made an attempt to help the Early Adopters like me and when I call them on there promise they simply act like it never happened.. At this point all i can say is never ever buy a Nissan again.. They cannot be trusted and used all of us Early Adopters to get there cars sold.. I still love my LEAF. But at a cost of 15,000 to replace my First Gen Pack I am better off just buying a newer used EV thats not a Nissan. How Sad.

I have not priced replacement batteries recently--no need. Nissan did replace the battery in my 2011 under the 5-year, 60,000-mile capacity warranty that was provided to me long before I received any information about the class action lawsuit (which I opted out of). The battery was replaced in October of 2013 and my dealer quoted about $6,600 to replace the battery in January of 2015 (parts, labor, and tax) since I needed that information to negotiate with the other driver's insurance company.

Nissan (like most manufacturers) will follow the wording of the warranty so there is likely to be no compensation if time or mileage limitations in the warranty are exceeded. It is unfortunate if the actual battery replacement cost has increased by about 2-1/2 times since 2015. To clear up misconceptions about range noted on the original window sticker, here is the one from my 2011 that was purchased on June 12, 2011:

It clearly shows the range as 73 miles and consumption rate of 34 kWh per 100 miles. Miles per gallon equivalents are 106 city, 92 highway, and 99 combined.