Lothsahn
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Buying a used battery from salvage yards

Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:00 am

Dala wrote:Just swapping in a less used battery wont work. The battery management system is coded to the rest of the car.

For a successful swap, you need to open the battery, and swap the BMS between the two before fitting it to the car.
And you can't just swap the BMS unless you have the same model year. The BMS wiring has changed between some model years, and using the wrong wiring WILL fry the BMS.

If you're opening the battery, do a cell swap. I doubt the dealership will be willing to do this, as it involves a LOT of manual labor, and involves dangerous voltages (200V+)
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

MaxLeafPower
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:56 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 432545

Re: Buying a used battery from salvage yards

Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:09 pm

Goran wrote:Just curious, what is your range nw with 4 bars when fully charged? What weather, temp etc?
I'm getting about 25 to 30 miles which is just enough to get me to work and back.

Lothsahn wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
The only guaranteed to work options are:
1) Open both packs and replace all of the cells from a newer pack into the original 11/12 pack, keeping the BMS and wiring harnesses from 11/12. This only works if the pack is 24kWh. You cannot use 30/40 kWh cells. OR
2) Get a pack for the same model year and battery heater combination. Use EVSEnhanced's tool to re-pair the battery pack to the car. OR
3) Buy a replacement pack from Nissan. They will ensure that the pack is compatible with your car and comes with the wiring harness adapter.
Looks like my easiest option is to get the battery pack from the same year. This might be a stupid question but how do I know if my car has a battery warmer? The dealership said they aren't able to find out using my VIN.

User avatar
davewill
Posts: 5068
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:04 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, US

Re: Buying a used battery from salvage yards

Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:24 pm

MaxLeafPower wrote: Looks like my easiest option is to get the battery pack from the same year. This might be a stupid question but how do I know if my car has a battery warmer? The dealership said they aren't able to find out using my VIN.
2011s with the battery warmer had something called the "Cold Weather Package" as I recall. They might be able to find that detail by VIN.
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12987
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buying a used battery from salvage yards

Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:44 pm

You don't want to get a 2011 battery, or any year used battery manufactured before April of 2013. They will have deteriorated about as much as yours, or if not, will deteriorate rapidly once installed. You need a newer pack plus the adapter kit. 2015 is the best year, with 2014 the next best bet.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

MaxLeafPower
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:56 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 432545

Re: Buying a used battery from salvage yards

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:You don't want to get a 2011 battery, or any year used battery manufactured before April of 2013. They will have deteriorated about as much as yours, or if not, will deteriorate rapidly once installed. You need a newer pack plus the adapter kit. 2015 is the best year, with 2014 the next best bet.
I was hoping there would be a 100% sure way that a 13-15 batteries would fit but few of the responses have mentioned there could be some problems getting it to work on a 11 leaf.

I don't want to spend $3k on a used battery only to find out it's not working. Then I would have to spend another $3k to get 11-12 battery pack. That means I would end up spending $6k for two used batteries where I could just by a brand new battery pack. Sometimes being frugal costs more in the long run :roll: .

I'm ok if the new battery degrades in the future, hopefully I'm planning on buying a Tesla which has a BTM. Even the new 19 leafs are passively cooled, I don't think Nissan will ever learn.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12987
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buying a used battery from salvage yards

Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:20 pm

The adapter kit seems to work fine. The issue isn't really that you might get a later battery and find it doesn't work. It's more like a question of whether you can install any Leaf battery on your own. If you can, then the kit shouldn't be a big issue. I think you do need to know whether or not you have the Cold Weather Package, and get the right adapter for that.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Lothsahn
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Buying a used battery from salvage yards

Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:52 am

MaxLeafPower wrote: I was hoping there would be a 100% sure way that a 13-15 batteries would fit but few of the responses have mentioned there could be some problems getting it to work on a 11 leaf.

I don't want to spend $3k on a used battery only to find out it's not working. Then I would have to spend another $3k to get 11-12 battery pack. That means I would end up spending $6k for two used batteries where I could just by a brand new battery pack. Sometimes being frugal costs more in the long run :roll: .

I'm ok if the new battery degrades in the future, hopefully I'm planning on buying a Tesla which has a BTM. Even the new 19 leafs are passively cooled, I don't think Nissan will ever learn.

You don't want a 11-12 battery for the reasons that LeftieBiker stated. It's going to wear out very very fast. Also, I had one Nissan EV Help line person tell me that they can't release the refurb packs in the US due to EPA rules, and another rep say "they're working on making them available in the US" Who knows what the reality is and when, if ever, the refurb packs will be available.

You basically have three "good" options:
1) Buy a 13(April+)-15 battery, 24kWH. Open up both packs and swap the cells. Just swap the battery cells--don't try to swap the packs or BMS or cabling or anything. There is some risk that the new battery has been damaged or worn out, but that's pretty unlikely as long as you get a pack from a car in a colder climate and April '13 or newer. This is your cheapest option, but it is a full day's worth of work and you will need the proper equipment (HV gloves, etc).

2) Buy a new battery from Nissan. This will come with the factory warranty and Nissan will do all the work for you. It will run you around $8500.

3) Wait for Fenix Power to release their product. Keep in mind they're a new startup so the risk of failure is high.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 7&start=70

4) Sell the car


I really wish there was a better option, and I'm as unhappy as you that Nissan raised the battery price. I bought my car expecting to pay $5500 in a year for a new battery, and they raised the price the next month. I'm also unhappy that Nissan won't install a higher capacity battery pack if I'm buying a whole new one, but unfortunately, that is today's reality.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

User avatar
davewill
Posts: 5068
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:04 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, US

Re: Buying a used battery from salvage yards

Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:59 am

Didn't the cold weather package also include either seat or steering wheel heaters? (Can't remember which) That might be way to tell.
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2249
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Buying a used battery from salvage yards

Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:29 pm

davewill wrote:Didn't the cold weather package also include either seat or steering wheel heaters? (Can't remember which) That might be way to tell.
Yes, late production 2011s had cold weather package which included steering wheel, seat, and traction battery heaters. Therefore, a 2011 that has factory original steering wheel and seat heaters should have the traction battery heater. Earlier production 2011s do not have the heaters.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL+ purchased 8/10/2019

Reddy
Posts: 1544
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Buying a used battery from salvage yards

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:14 pm

Lothsahn wrote:
cwerdna wrote:There also can be fitment problems with '13+ packs into an '11. See replies by Aaron (a well-known Leaf tech in the PNW) at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... 8378082921. He has some replies there.
This.

I've spoken with Cor directly and he has confirmed that in addition to needing the plug adapter to go from 13+ to 11/12, there are also physical fitment problems with the battery cover (the plastic that goes over the battery under the car). The battery cover was changed slightly, so if you intend to do a pack/pack replacement, you should also get the cover. Additionally, the older VCM (11/12) may have compatibility issues with the newer battery packs, according to EVSEnhanced.

The only guaranteed to work options are:
1) Open both packs and replace all of the cells from a newer pack into the original 11/12 pack, keeping the BMS and wiring harnesses from 11/12. This only works if the pack is 24kWh. You cannot use 30/40 kWh cells. OR
2) Get a pack for the same model year and battery heater combination. Use EVSEnhanced's tool to re-pair the battery pack to the car. OR
3) Buy a replacement pack from Nissan. They will ensure that the pack is compatible with your car and comes with the wiring harness adapter.

If you go with option 3, it's very expensive, but it will NOT come with 2011 cells. All new packs purchased from Nissan use the latest battery chemistry and carry the standard 8 year battery warranty (and 5 year capacity warranty).
Excellent information!!!! Thanks.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”