Range anxiety..

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rcrw88

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
17
Location
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Hey,

I commute 97km a day (60 miles). I'm considering a 2015 with just under 30k. I don't have charging at work but I may get it in the future. I'm okay with topping up at public stations until I can charge at work.

Does this car work for me? Test driving it showed 12 bars and 142km on range. Carfax looked okay.
 
Where are you located? Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

(I've been lobbying to mandate filling out the location field for years, to no avail.)

Of your daily driving, how much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your home/destinations?
 
Sorry I'll do that now. SW Ontario. 90% is "highway" with 90-100km/h. Home I'll have 240v, work I can maybe work out 110v but tip-toeing around asking my boss. Im okay with topping up for 30m-1hr a day while I run after work errands or read/work remotely.
 
If you'd be doing that commute in frigid weather, then the answer is "no." A good 24kwh Leaf has maybe 75 miles of range in mixed driving if you really drain it. Divide that in half for the worst-case Winter range. You would absolutely need workplace charging unless you live in a warm climate.
 
Leftie is correct, for the 24kwh Leaf the winter range can get down to 40 miles with cold and snowy roads not to mention maybe a strong headwind. For your 60 mile RT commute getting to work would be no problem, even in the worst condition but without a reliable source of charging at work, and preferably 240v, I probably wouldn't attempt it. True if you had QC or full amp L2 charging along the way it would help but note in extreme cold charging speed can be slower than warmer temps. For an emergency, sure you'd be able to do it with on the road charging but time ticks by pretty slow waiting for your car to charge :(
 
Plan for if you need to do a half day or if there is a chance you need to leave early. I'm very luck that I have level 1 charging in the main parking at my work from a un-shared 5R15 circuit and I'm even more lucky because if I know a half day is coming up I can park near to the building and L2. Maybe I should insulate the bottom of the battery in the cooler months with foil faced 1/2" foam board.
 
ripple4 said:
Plan for if you need to do a half day or if there is a chance you need to leave early. I'm very luck that I have level 1 charging in the main parking at my work from a un-shared 5R15 circuit and I'm even more lucky because if I know a half day is coming up I can park near to the building and L2. Maybe I should insulate the bottom of the battery in the cooler months with foil faced 1/2" foam board.
As cwerdna commented, it is helpful if you include your location in your information to the left. If you are in a moderate climate it probably doesn't make appeciable difference. If you are in a place where serious winters occur, you will likely find that heat and defrosting is an even bigger energy eater.
 
Dooglas said:
LeftieBiker said:
rcrw88 said:
Sorry, to clarify, my round trip is 97km. Not 97km each way!
I understood that. Half of 75 is 37.5.
And 37.5 miles equals 60.4 km, while half of 97 km is 48.5 km. (apples to apples)

Look at the first post. He gives both KM and miles, with 60 MILES being the commute length, not 60km.
 
I strongly recommend that you consider a later SL or SV with heat pump and larger battery if you want to drive a LEAF. Your highway speeds are reasonable from a range perspective so a 2015 SL or SV with no battery deterioration could make the round trip except during the worst winter conditions. As the battery starts to lose capacity, you would need some L1 charging at work on the colder days. With more deterioration, you would need L1 charging all day or a few hours of L2 at work. As the battery continues to deteriorate, you would eventually need L2 charging at work so that you would be able to start your return trip with a full charge. I don't recommend having to depend on public charging along your route on a daily basis because of the increased commuting time. Don't consider a LEAF that does not have a heat pump because the resistance heater takes more energy for cabin heat and especially for defrost (resistance heater will be active on cold days even with a heat pump so the range will be reduced compared to more moderate temperatures).
 
GerryAZ said:
I strongly recommend that you consider a later SL or SV with heat pump and larger battery if you want to drive a LEAF. Your highway speeds are reasonable from a range perspective so a 2015 SL or SV with no battery deterioration could make the round trip except during the worst winter conditions. As the battery starts to lose capacity, you would need some L1 charging at work on the colder days. With more deterioration, you would need L1 charging all day or a few hours of L2 at work. As the battery continues to deteriorate, you would eventually need L2 charging at work so that you would be able to start your return trip with a full charge. I don't recommend having to depend on public charging along your route on a daily basis because of the increased commuting time. Don't consider a LEAF that does not have a heat pump because the resistance heater takes more energy for cabin heat and especially for defrost (resistance heater will be active on cold days even with a heat pump so the range will be reduced compared to more moderate temperatures).

How does one check to see what heater the car has? And is this a comfort thing or does it heat the battery to improve short-term capacity? Ty

(Looked this up first, can't get a conclusive answer apart from determining if one is SL or SV.. )
 
The SV and SL all have the heat pump from 2013 on. The SL has leather seats. I'm going to push a bit harder than the others, though: DO NOT get a 24 kwh Leaf if you have no workplace charging. A used 30kwh Leaf would likely work, but they have battery management software issues and may also have faster battery deterioration. Nissan issued a fix that has improved range for some people, while not improving it for others. You could also get a deal on a remaining 2018 Leaf. Even a 2018 S with no heat pump would work for your commute.
 
I agree that this commute isn't a good fit for a 24kWh LEAF (regardless of year) bar workplace charging, and maybe not even then. Having the heat pump will help, except that much of the time in the OP's winter the temps will be below the point at which the heat pump provides no advantage, and resistive heating will be used. Add winds and high rolling resistance to that, and it's too much hassle.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Dooglas said:
LeftieBiker said:
I understood that. Half of 75 is 37.5.
And 37.5 miles equals 60.4 km, while half of 97 km is 48.5 km. (apples to apples)
Look at the first post. He gives both KM and miles, with 60 MILES being the commute length, not 60km.
Sigh. His number is 97 km (60 miles) RT. YOUR number is 75 mi range (half is 37.5 mi or 60.4 km)
 
Sigh. His number is 97 km (60 miles) RT. YOUR number is 75 mi range (half is 37.5 mi or 60.4 km)

I'm still pretty sick, but it seems very clear to me that a 24kwh Leaf won't do a 60 mile commute in frigid weather. Maybe you think I'm halving the 75 mile range because of it being a round trip? No. I'm halving the 75 mile estimate because driving in frigid weather cuts the car's range in half. Do you understand now? If not, I give up. I think the OP understands. This is a quote from my earlier response to him: "Divide that in half for the worst-case Winter range."
 
I believe the hybrid heater (heat pump system) became optional on SV in either 2018 or 2019. Also heated seats and steering wheel have become options for some models. I just checked Nissan's web site and only the SL shows the hybrid heater under standard features. All SV and SL models from 2013 to 2017 have the hybrid heating system (heat pump) and that feature was not available on the S models. All 2011 and 2012 models have a small electric water heater under the hood and circulate warm coolant through the heat exchanger in the dash for heating. Early 2011 models did not have the cold weather package so they did not have battery heaters, seat heaters, or steering wheel heater. The heated water system takes a lot of energy and thus has a major impact on range. The dry type resistance heater in 2013 and later models takes less energy than the heated water system; the heat pump system (which has the dry resistance heater as a backup) takes the least amount of energy to heat the cabin.
 
Yes, the above is correct. The OP shouldn't be looking at any Leaf before 2016 (30kwh only), though, as it wouldn't have enough range for his 60 mile RT commute in Winter.
 
What temperatures are you guys assuming? My worst case of -25 still has 12% loss according to the 24kWh chart. Where are your getting the "half the range" precaution from? 97% of the temps last year and this year have been around -6, which says it drops the efficiency by 3%. Also assuming 5% capacity drop for its kms/yr.

Thanks for all your advice so far!
 
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