DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15324
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:44 am

SageBrush wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote: Recently, Musk (for God knows what reason) said it was perfectly fine to charge a Tesla to 90% daily.
You should learn to read the entire tweet (or two.) It will help you avoid spouting drivel.

Musk pointed out that *if needed,* he would be comfortable charging a Tesla up to 90% daily. He never said, implied, or meant that daily charging up to 90% is preferred. His point (lost on all the fools looking for troll-food) was that the expected degradation from daily charging up to 90% SoC was not so severe as to make EV ownership impractical.
"I" don't have a Tesla

"I" didn't read any of his tweets

"I" didn't misunderstand his advice

There is nothing I said that is even remotely wrong since I clearly stated it was 2nd hand info but since its 2nd hand, its as accurate as the original poster.

So we can think his statement was misleading (it was)

Didn't have sufficient disclaimers (it didn't)

or not.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 92.44% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 5603
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:43 am

THAT is your Saturday AM defense ?
That you are just a parrot in a FUD echo chamber ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

JTim
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:56 am
Delivery Date: 16 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 1024

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:25 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
JTim wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Did the reprogramming affect your perceived range?
It affected by perceived range, yes. But from my odometer (odo) readings you see I don't travel many miles. I usually charge every 4-5 days instead of every week now, but I can still get 80 miles or so from 100 percent to 15-20 percent except for really cold conditions (for Texas, anyway). But I'm kinda torn about perceived range versus actual range. My route always takes about 5 percent to 6 percent of the battery (heat or a/c seems to affect that very little) so when I perceive the range down to the GOM-rated 15 percent I know where I can go and I see the actual range is 80 miles or so from the last charge I know I need to charge. Do I wish the battery lasted longer than a year and a half (perceived) before the first bar drops, yes. Did I have this kind of psychological anxiety of range when I drove my Prius and got down to 1/4 a tank? Yes.

What level do you charge to? If my driving needs were that light, I would never charge beyond 60-70%. Its simply a strain on your battery you don't need. Now before you come up with rationalizations, let me relate a story that I am sure you can find.

Recently, Musk (for God knows what reason) said it was perfectly fine to charge a Tesla to 90% daily. This was nearly a 180º flip on a previous statement he made.

So a Tesla owner who normally charged every 3-5 days changed his setting to the 90% daily and got a message that his average driving needs did not warrant such a setting and it was recommended he select a lower SOC target.
Huh. A good observation. And an interesting story. Now I'm really curious if I change my habits and see what happens.

After the loss of my first bar before re-programming I started charging to 100%. I still do. And I don't need to. If my percentage reads 100 I'll usually arrive at work at 95 or 94 percent and after arriving home have about 90 percent. High percentage of the battery is one of the things listed in the manual as contributing to battery chemistry degredation.

I'll try your advice, especially in winter, try to get used to lower range early and get rid of the anxiety I seem to have regained, or ... uh... mitigate it?

-J.Tim
JTim
Fort Worth, TX
Man. Date: 12/15
Delivered 12-16-2015
Glacier White, 2016 SV, 30 kwh

mn4az
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:24 pm
Location: Prior Lake, MN

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:52 pm

mn4az wrote:
mn4az wrote: Rather than having folks deal with the crappy formatting I'm keeping my numbers at the below URL. As of now it seems that I am degrading at a faster clip than before the software upgrade. :-( However, that could mean lots of things. By this time next year things could be much different (hopefully) or not (kinda expecting it).

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AmMHBcyzLWAx7IAfhTHs_dPgwtVW6w

No matter what, it's serving it's 9+ year commuter car purpose for us: 3 years of us driving it before the kids drive it 6+ years around town for high school and extracurricular activities.
URL has been updated. Minnesota driver. Dec '15 manufacturing date.

Date: 10/4/2018
SOH: 89.3%
Mileage: 37231

The 100% charge after software upgrade was....

Date: 6/23/2018
SOH: 93.44%
Mileage: 32830

I'm losing ~0.9% SOH every 1k miles. On track for battery warranty replacement at around 84K miles (about 3 years from now at current driving habits). If that happens, I'd be totally cool with a new battery about 5.5 years into the ownership of the car to get me another 5-ish years.
Full blown winter now in MN. SOH improved from 10/4/2018 readings. :o

Date 12/29/2018
AHr 71.63
SOH 90.12%
V 395.04
Hx 73.18%
ODO 41034
QC 11
L1/L2 2139
SOC 97.80%
GIDS 327
kWh 25.3

johnlocke
Posts: 637
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:58 am

Jan 1 2019 Update. There was essentially no change in capacity last month. 355 GID's , 77.61AH, SOH = 97.65%, Hx= 88.14% 9928 mi , 9 L3 charges and 188 L2 charges on the new battery. Looking back at my records that seems to be normal for this time of year. Gee, the battery does well as long as the daytime high is less than 80 degrees. December through March periods show little loss compared to July through October periods.

It seems like I might hit the replacement requirements just before the 100,000 mi mark. It's difficult to judge because I bought the car in December but got the battery replaced in June so the daytime temps are out of sync when I compare the monthly losses between the two batteries.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

specialgreen
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Mar 2017
Location: Minnesota

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:10 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Did the reprogramming affect your perceived range?
Both my wife and I perceive that the GOM/SOH% drops quicker when it is low. Before the reprogram, it seemed to take longer to get from LBW to VLBW. After the reprogram, if you get to LBW, it seems to drop towards zero faster. But the GOM starts-out higher now, so I don't think range really decreased. I have no data to back that up; just my perception.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16147
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:47 am

I assume you mean the GOM/SOC meters. If true, that supports the idea that Nissan just tapped into more of the battery's low end capacity...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

johnlocke
Posts: 637
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:43 pm

Feb 1 2019 Update. There was essentially no change in capacity from last month. 354 GID's , 77.56AH, SOH = 97.58%, Hx= 88.00% 11330 mi , 10 L3 charges and 217 L2 charges on the new battery. Looking back at my records that seems to be normal for this time of year. The battery continues to do well as long as the weather stays cool. The December through March periods show low losses compared to July through October periods. This battery seems to be doing better at this point then the old one. I don't know whether this is due to a better battery or the software update. The real test will be this summer when the temps hit 100+ again. If the battery doesn't lose a lot of capacity over the summer, then perhaps Nissan actually fixed something.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

dbarkman
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:29 am
Delivery Date: 04 Feb 2019

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:02 am

Hi everyone, newby here, but buying a Leaf soon and hope to be an active member. I'm looking at a 2016 SL with about 16,700 miles. Actually went on the road in January 2017, so just over two years. The original pics from the dealer showed a capacity loss of 6 bars, somewhat amazing for 2 years of driving I thought, even for Phoenix. I asked the dealer about it and this is what they said: "When we got it in we noticed that indicator as well and brought into the Nissan dealer for a software update that fixed part of the bars that it was showing down. Nissan had a software update for a inaccurate reading for this years battery health meter."

The indicator now shows 10 bars, I drove it myself, but won't get a chance to run LeafSpy until this afternoon. Skimming through some of this topic's many pages, it seems like this may be legit. The Carfax also shows a dealer service with a date that correlates with when the vehicle went on sale.

Does this seem legit to you all?

Thank you!

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 789
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:41 am

dbarkman wrote:Hi everyone, newby here, but buying a Leaf soon and hope to be an active member. I'm looking at a 2016 SL with about 16,700 miles. Actually went on the road in January 2017, so just over two years. The original pics from the dealer showed a capacity loss of 6 bars, somewhat amazing for 2 years of driving I thought, even for Phoenix. I asked the dealer about it and this is what they said: "When we got it in we noticed that indicator as well and brought into the Nissan dealer for a software update that fixed part of the bars that it was showing down. Nissan had a software update for a inaccurate reading for this years battery health meter."

The indicator now shows 10 bars, I drove it myself, but won't get a chance to run LeafSpy until this afternoon. Skimming through some of this topic's many pages, it seems like this may be legit. The Carfax also shows a dealer service with a date that correlates with when the vehicle went on sale.

Does this seem legit to you all?

Thank you!
Yes. The software update applies to the 2016/2017 model years only. It only fixes an incorrect reporting of actual loss. So the leaf you're looking at now as a legitimate 2 bar loss. Maybe after this summer or next summer, it'll qualify for a warranty replacement.
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
:: Model 3 LR (Turo) :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Model Y LR AWD (wife's) :: acquired 30 Dec '20
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

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