people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

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Dooglas said:
What is the solution to that? Think about the intended use before deciding on a method and terms of purchase or lease.
Then I'd buy the parts and fix it myself. Nissan won't sell parts. You have to pay them to swap the pack you can't (to my knowledge) open the pack, replace dead cells and reseal it because opening it damages the case of the pack... Even if you could get the cells.
I didn't anticipate/calculate the number of miles I was actually driving. I just calculated that it was costing me almost as much in gas to drive an old Subaru as it would to make my car payment.

Why is it such a thorn in your side that I'm trying to sell my car before it loses significant capacity and has so many miles that the warranty is insignificant for another owner?
If I can't sell for what I owe, I won't sell it.
 
Tsiah said:
Why is it such a thorn in your side that I'm trying to sell my car before it loses significant capacity and has so many miles that the warranty is insignificant for another owner? If I can't sell for what I owe, I won't sell it.
It was you who started the discussion. And in the end, it is no skin off my nose. You are exactly right - it is your decision. Consider your needs, consider your alternatives, and make your choice.
 
Dooglas said:
Tsiah said:
Why is it such a thorn in your side that I'm trying to sell my car before it loses significant capacity and has so many miles that the warranty is insignificant for another owner? If I can't sell for what I owe, I won't sell it.
It was you who started the discussion. And in the end, it is no skin off my nose. You are exactly right - it is your decision. Consider your needs, consider your alternatives, and make your choice.
You did not write what he wanted to read. He was looking for affirmation and not advice.
 
SageBrush said:
You did not write what he wanted to read. He was looking for affirmation and not advice.
Maybe to an extent... But it seems to bother him that I've become concerned about the cost of battery replacement and that I'm considering selling over that.
 
Tsiah said:
SageBrush said:
You did not write what he wanted to read. He was looking for affirmation and not advice.
Maybe to an extent... But it seems to bother him that I've become concerned about the cost of battery replacement and that I'm considering selling over that.
No, he regrets wasting his time giving you good advice
 
SageBrush said:
Tsiah said:
SageBrush said:
You did not write what he wanted to read. He was looking for affirmation and not advice.
Maybe to an extent... But it seems to bother him that I've become concerned about the cost of battery replacement and that I'm considering selling over that.
No, he regrets wasting his time giving you good advice
:roll:
 
I turned in my 2012 Leaf in mid 2014, about half way through its lease and replaced with an ICE. That ICE was replaced with a hybrid, which was just last year replaced with a car that gets 25 MPG on premium.

Why? The range on the Leaf was a @*#&ing joke. In the winter its range was so terrible I just got sick of dealing with it. Cold soaked battery with well below freezing temps and daring to use the heat the battery just died too fast to be taken seriously.

I had big interest on a model 3 for two reasons: 1) No range issues (I would only use it in my city/around home), 2) Power. Got sick of Tesla's endless dicking around/lying about timeline on the standard range car, so replaced it with a gas guzzler last summer.

The new Leaf has mostly resolved the range issue--I think I could do with it, since I only would use it around town, but it's still a laughably goofy looking car with no power. Tesla is the only company making EVs right now that don't look like an econobox (Jag recently joined in, too).
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
I turned in my 2012 Leaf in mid 2014, about half way through its lease and replaced with an ICE...
Why? The range on the Leaf was a @*#&ing joke. In the winter its range was so terrible I just got sick of dealing with it.
Ya, you poor early adopters got the short end of the stick. :( The 100 mile range Leaf that was promised really wasn't a 100 mile range car at all… unless you only drove it at 40mph... on flat ground... only during the summer… with the A/C off... and replaced your car every year or two... For some reason they didn't put those details in the fine print. :|

But I think anyone looking into a Leaf now should be able to find out what they are getting themselves into. ;) I did anyhow. I knew how far it would go. I knew how much it would be affected by the cold. I knew it would degrade at a fairly easy to estimate rate based off my climate and driving habits. I knew the car would depreciate rather quickly too. I also knew how much I could save in fuel and maintenance. All that information led me to buy a car that we enjoyed very much and miss now that we don't have it. If my circumstances hadn't changed, we'd still be driving it. :D

The one thing that I didn't know is that the price to change out the battery would increase instead of decrease. :x I knew that someday I'd have to change out the battery. And I had that figured into my total cost to own calculations. At around $5,000 a pop it just meant saving a bit more every month, about what I save in fuel, so that when the time comes I could just hand over the cash and keep driving. But when it jumped to more than $8,000, that really threw me for a loop. It wasn't the reason I got rid of the car, it still ran fine with 11 bars after 5 years. But it wasn't pleasant news to be sure! :!:

If my circumstances change to where I don't have to drive so far I'd be tempted to get a Leaf again. :) But Nissan's battery replacement pricing is a turnoff for me. :? Maybe if I could get a lease on a new Leaf for less than $300 a month without a huge down payment (is that possible) and could trade it in before any warranties expire, I might do it. But I would need to lessen my driving from 30,000 miles a year down to something that would fit within a lease agreement first.

For now, I still have my 40amp EVSE out in the parking lot waiting for that next EV some time in the future. :mrgreen:
 
IssacZachary said:
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
I turned in my 2012 Leaf in mid 2014, about half way through its lease and replaced with an ICE...
Why? The range on the Leaf was a @*#&ing joke. In the winter its range was so terrible I just got sick of dealing with it.
Ya, you poor early adopters got the short end of the stick. :( The 100 mile range Leaf that was promised really wasn't a 100 mile range car at all… unless you only drove it at 40mph... on flat ground... only during the summer… with the A/C off... and replaced your car every year or two... For some reason they didn't put those details in the fine print. :|

But I think anyone looking into a Leaf now should be able to find out what they are getting themselves into. ;) I did anyhow. I knew how far it would go. I knew how much it would be affected by the cold. I knew it would degrade at a fairly easy to estimate rate based off my climate and driving habits. I knew the car would depreciate rather quickly too. I also knew how much I could save in fuel and maintenance. All that information led me to buy a car that we enjoyed very much and miss now that we don't have it. If my circumstances hadn't changed, we'd still be driving it. :D :mrgreen:

I just bought a used Leaf after two years of Tesla Model S ownership. Bought it as a third car. So far, I can see why people are frustrated with the range. You really must change your driving habits when driving the Leaf. With my Model S I can drive it 90 mph all day long without too much impact on range or battery temp/life. I can also supercharge it repeatedly on a long trip in 100 degree weather. Using the 10 kW heater provides immediate heat in cold weather and is not really a concern for range, except in some edge cases. The Model S is also a lot more convenient as far as interacting with the car, remote access, etc. Having said all this, I will say that I am really loving my 20015 Leaf S. It is a refreshingly simple car. The seating position is much higher than either my Model S or my 550i. It is SO much easier to get into and out of! I love the high ground clearance and the well damped suspension that is significantly more comfortable than either one of my other cars. The seats are not good, though -- not enough upper back support. Driving the Leaf is like a video game -- I enjoy wringing every bit of range from my battery. When I bought it, I had a 70 mile drive to get home, so I was all prepared to stop on the way to quick charge. It turns out, I was able to comfortably make it home with plenty of range left -- that was a pleasant surprise! My average consumption is 4.3 and going up.

My biggest complaint is the looks -- I really wish it wasn't so dorky looking :) The other thing I really don't like is the embarrassing beeping in reverse. That got really old on the first day -- I immediately bought LeafSpy and turned it off. Phew, that was annoying!
 
Hopefully I'm done buying gas and diesel for the most part.
I don't miss those pay day fill ups putting $50 to $100 in my diesel suburban.
I still buy a little gas for my lawn mower and my diesel tractor. I do still have my old diesel suburban but I only put fuel in it maybe once a year and it not even anywhere near empty when I do.
 
I still ride my motorcycle, a Vulcan 900. Not much, just on the weekends. But I can't imagine going back to an ICE car now, even with the mindset adjustments.
 
I was still riding a gas bike along with my Vectrix as late as two years ago, and trying to sell an ill-advised Ebay gas bike as late as last year. But now I'm done with gas bikes as well.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I was still riding a gas bike along with my Vectrix as late as two years ago, and trying to sell an ill-advised Ebay gas bike as late as last year. But now I'm done with gas bikes as well.

Here in SoCal with its great mountains and twisty roads, couldn't imagine not enjoying riding my Suzuki GSXR1000 or my Ducati 996
on a Sunday morning in the local mountains. Or riding with a group from SoCal to Laguna Seca (~ 350+ miles) for the weekend to
attend the World Super Bike races in the summer. As with any BEV, basically not having an unlimited range and an ubiquitous energy
network is a significant detriment to enjoying "the ride".
 
I have multiple vehicles, but my lease is ending in August and I won't be looking for another EV anytime soon. Leaf's heating system can't keep up with Chicago's cold weather and just kills the range in the winter. My 32 mile highway commute left me pulling in to work with 30-40% capacity. Charging at work is a must, but a crowded set of charging stations where people stay parked all day which is another big reason I'm not buying another for a while. I had to be to work before 7:50 am or I was screwed.

My Leaf went into Turtle mode trying to charge it today (at 56%) with a L2 Chargepoint. I drove it around the block and turned it off/on trying to get it to reset. I gave up. It cleared the error AFTER the tow truck dropped me off at the dealer. Unreal. Tow truck driver did say mine was the first Leaf he has towed, but has towed quite a few Teslas. Interesting...

I'll be back when EVs are built better for cold weather and I don't have to charge to get back home from a 60 mile winter highway round trip. I bought a motorcycle for my warm weather commute. 44 mpg and go as fast as necessary without a worry if I got to work before everyone else.
 
Two guys at my work sold their Model 3's. One of them is down to a BRoD (GM, IIRC extended-length) SUV as he said he didn't need his 3 as he moved to be much closer to work.

Another guy reached out to me late last year. He wanted to see and ask me questions about my Bolt. He apparently sold his 3 that day. His plan was to pick up an off-lease Bolt for cheap. I guess he's back to ICEV. IIRC, he lives in Oakland and was too concerned about his 3 being broken into wherever he parked it, esp. if at a BART station. He figured a Bolt wouldn't be as much of a target and if it were cheap, he wouldn't care so much about it being damaged.
 
LeftieBiker said:
True - the Bolt does look like an optioned Sonic. ;)

IMO, the Sonic is a nicer-looking car.

I often park my car in less-than-ideal places with little concern over it being broken into (except the fact that it is still fairly new looking). It's not quite what my father terms an "airport car" (i.e. a car attracts so little attention that you can leave unattended for weeks on end at an airport, and don't think twice about it being messed with), but I like being lower profile than a "everyone look at me" Tesla.
 
cwerdna said:
Two guys at my work sold their Model 3's. One of them is down to a BRoD (GM, IIRC extended-length) SUV as he said he didn't need his 3 as he moved to be much closer to work.

Another guy reached out to me late last year. He wanted to see and ask me questions about my Bolt. He apparently sold his 3 that day. His plan was to pick up an off-lease Bolt for cheap. I guess he's back to ICEV. IIRC, he lives in Oakland and was too concerned about his 3 being broken into wherever he parked it, esp. if at a BART station. He figured a Bolt wouldn't be as much of a target and if it were cheap, he wouldn't care so much about it being damaged.
I bumped into the Oakland guy at work today. I don't know him and had only met him probably that one time. He thanked me for some discounted new Bolt info I'd sent him but said he ended up buying a cheap Rav4 for (IIRC), a couple $K.

He's still waiting for used Bolts or other used EV to come down in price. He speculated that we'll see 400+ mile EVs, driving down prices of lesser range EVs like Bolts.

I guess he really changed his mind/tune about having a new Model 3 vs. a random used ICEV or EV. I sorta don't blame him given the rep that Oakland has and the amount of car break-ins in the Bay Area as well as possible damage from jerks.

I myself am rather angry that someone hit my Bolt in a hit and run at an unknown time and place. It was only spotted when the above guy came to see my Bolt late last year. He pointed it out to me. Someone hit the the side and corner of my rear bumper cover, putting in some creases, a crack, a dent and a TON of scratches. :( Bumper cover will have to be replaced.

Don't know if it happened at work or elsewhere or even when. I only have a time range of a few months and somehow I didn't notice due to a dirty car, I guess. Whoever hit me didn't leave a note. I'd rather not claim it with insurance for fear my rates may go up and for all I know, someone might hit me worse/rear end me after the repair. I'm guessing at least $1K to repair. Maybe I'll fixed after I get CA HOV sticker years down the road after the stickers expire (probably in 2025 per https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fact-sheets/current-clean-air-vehicle-decal).

At my work, someone w/a Model 3 parked at work was also a hit and run victim by someone unknown who didn't leave a note. :( It's rather disturbing to me and probably many colleagues that we can have some jerks at work who won't take responsibility.
 
Isn't there a law in CA that limits when your rates are allowed to go up?

I thought claiming an accident that wasn't your fault, such as the hit and run, wouldn't ding your rates.

I had someone throw a giant rock through my truck window a little over a year ago damaging my steering wheel and obviously the window and door. Sadly by the time my deductible was applied they covered only about half the total damage, and didn't cover items from inside.
Those items fell under my homeowner policy which has a much bigger deductible.

But they did not raise the rates on me.
 
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