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LEAFer
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:11 am

Why does building code require them ?
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blorg
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:35 am

LEAFer wrote:Why does building code require them ?
Building codes require all kinds of things, both for safety as well as standardization (and some that are completely idiotic). We had a remodel on our house a couple years ago, and the electrical codes now require many more outlets than they used to. Something like every corner has to have an outlet within 10 feet or so, can't remember the details, but they actually had to ADD outlets to any of the rooms where they were doing significant work simply to meet the code.

I'm sure garages have a different code for this, but I would assume they still have wiring codes that require certain locations for outlets.
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smkettner
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:40 am

I could understand the restriction as there might be ten outlets on a single 20a circuit. That is fine for the maintenance guy plugging in one spot at a time. But if all are supplying EVs the circuit breaker would trip out. Eventually they could just have a remote switch, key switch or a simple card that says NO EV.

In time I think the owners will find it is beneficial to have EV charging. And I think the owners will also find the low cost method will be a bunch of simple dedicated L1 5-20R instead of $10,000+ to wire in a couple 40a EVSEs for people to fight over.
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Train
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:45 am

This is such clear cut common sense and I can't believe there is any debate over this whatsoever. It seems some people were raised with subjective values and a good dose of denial and justification. It's sad to see people joining the EV community with such an outlook on basic courtesy and respect for private property.


I agree. There some serious rationalizing going on here. I guess some people will justify anything, including taking what is not their's.

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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:40 am

Jimmydreams wrote:If you're paying for parking in a garage, then what you pay provides you the lights, elevators, etc. I would argue that the outlet (again, NOT locked and NOT marked) is just like the elevator: I paid for it, I can use it. If a business provides parking for it's customers and there is an outlet there, who is to say it's not provided for the use of the patrons of the business that already provided the parking?
It is likely that passenger elevators were installed with the intention of transporting people from one level to another. It is less likely, at this time, that outlets were installed with the intention of charging electric vehicles. It's not entirely clear to me what the intention of outlets in the parking garage is, probably for use by maintenance crew or such.

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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:07 am

Train wrote:
This is such clear cut common sense and I can't believe there is any debate over this whatsoever. It seems some people were raised with subjective values and a good dose of denial and justification. It's sad to see people joining the EV community with such an outlook on basic courtesy and respect for private property.


I agree. There some serious rationalizing going on here. I guess some people will justify anything, including taking what is not their's.

If you chose to take without asking then do it but don't justify it and call it what it is, stealing, just don't rationalize the crap out of it in every far-reaching manner. The only thing worse than a thief is a person that steals and then attempts to rationalize their actions with justification. The irony is that those same people are usually the type to flip out if someone were to do the same thing to them, making them hypocrites as well. We have plenty of those in politics today:) Stealing is stealing folks and there are no gradients in the process where it tips to become "ok".

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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:57 am

I think the thread author probably hoped that there was an objective way, but given all the various responses, it's definitely subjective.
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:08 pm

Collis P. Huntington was a railroad magnate of the 1800's.
He was considered to be " 'ruthless, grim, cold, crafty,'
whom someone neatly described as 'scrupulously dishonest.' "

Allegedly, his Code of Ethics was:

"Whatever is not nailed down is mine.
Whatever I can pry loose is not nailed down."

quoteinvestigator.com

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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:17 pm

Rokeby wrote:Collis P. Huntington was a railroad magnate of the 1800's.
He was considered to be " 'ruthless, grim, cold, crafty,'
whom someone neatly described as 'scrupulously dishonest.' "

Allegedly, his Code of Ethics was:

"Whatever is not nailed down is mine.
Whatever I can pry loose is not nailed down."

quoteinvestigator.com
I like his reasoning..........However, I bet he never had to test his theory with the old 1800's equalizer.... "Quickest Draw, WINS"

Using this thought process one might assume that plugging in establishes the crime when it is the current drawn that would cause the theft.
How would a current draw from one outlet be established and presented in a legal courtroom setting? I guess if you had a handy legal degree or cared to take a Public Defender by your side you could argue in court. It would be up to the Prosecutor and Cop to establish that something of value was actually stolen. I'm not sure how a single unattended plug would allow anyone to even establish that current was drawn.

And as we all know the Defendant has the right to remain silent.... :ugeek:
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Re: Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:43 pm

Carlos wrote:
Rokeby wrote:Collis P. Huntington was a railroad magnate of the 1800's.
He was considered to be " 'ruthless, grim, cold, crafty,'
whom someone neatly described as 'scrupulously dishonest.' "

Allegedly, his Code of Ethics was:

"Whatever is not nailed down is mine.
Whatever I can pry loose is not nailed down."

quoteinvestigator.com
I like his reasoning..........However, I bet he never had to test his theory with the old 1800's equalizer.... "Quickest Draw, WINS"

Using this thought process one might assume that plugging in establishes the crime when it is the current drawn that would cause the theft.
How would a current draw from one outlet be established and presented in a legal courtroom setting? I guess if you had a handy legal degree or cared to take a Public Defender by your side you could argue in court. It would be up to the Prosecutor and Cop to establish that something of value was actually stolen. I'm not sure how a single unattended plug would allow anyone to even establish that current was drawn.

And as we all know the Defendant has the right to remain silent.... :ugeek:

LIke shooting at someone and missing, or attempted murder. A person was not killed. Or if one grabs an item at a store and runs to the door but is stopped but did not "leave" with the item. etc, etc. "I was just plugging in to test the outlet feel officer"

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