Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

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(continuing discussion here)
LeftieBiker said:
Would you be leasing a Bolt, or buying one? GMAC puts crazy high residuals on the cars, making them affordable to lease but definitely overpriced to buy off-lease. They essentially push the tax credit into the residual...
I plan to buy a Bolt new. Bolt leases w/enough miles (10K/year will NOT cut it as I plan to sell my Prius and Leaf) look too expensive to me.

I looked into used Bolts. The pickings are slim and they're a terrible deal considering how much a discounted new one is minus $7500 tax credit. Not worth it. I suspect there are few off lease Bolts since they came out in Dec 2016. Perhaps that'll change once 3 year and 39 month lease returns enter the market?
 
cwerdna said:
(continuing discussion here)
LeftieBiker said:
Would you be leasing a Bolt, or buying one? GMAC puts crazy high residuals on the cars, making them affordable to lease but definitely overpriced to buy off-lease. They essentially push the tax credit into the residual...
I plan to buy a Bolt new. Bolt leases w/enough miles (10K/year will NOT cut it as I plan to sell my Prius and Leaf) look too expensive to me.

I looked into used Bolts. The pickings are slim and they're a terrible deal considering how much a discounted new one is minus $7500 tax credit. Not worth it. I suspect there are few off lease Bolts since they came out in Dec 2016. Perhaps that'll change once 3 year and 39 month lease returns enter the market?

Would be interested in a review after you have had the Bolt for a while.

As far as leasing? Bolt leases were never a good idea despite the BS on this thread.
 
When I looked at the Bolt the lease was way more than the Leaf, like $250 / month more. At the time Nissan was still taking the $7500 off the top which helps but GM was not and I am sure they were taking the $7500 credit. I had heard Nissan wasn't passing the whole $7500 on leases any more?
 
BrockWI said:
When I looked at the Bolt the lease was way more than the Leaf, like $250 / month more. At the time Nissan was still taking the $7500 off the top which helps but GM was not and I am sure they were taking the $7500 credit. I had heard Nissan wasn't passing the whole $7500 on leases any more?

That is true...actually I should say, that was true. I am guessing Nissan's incentives might be taking a dive since Munoz was a key supporter of US incentives (which Japanese leaders of Nissan were against) and has bailed from the company likely over the Ghosn situation.

that being said; who knows what lies in the hearts of men?
 
I looked into used Bolts. The pickings are slim and they're a terrible deal considering how much a discounted new one is minus $7500 tax credit. Not worth it. I suspect there are few off lease Bolts since they came out in Dec 2016. Perhaps that'll change once 3 year and 39 month lease returns enter the market?

The Bolt forum has a few people debating whether or not to turn the cars in our buy them. The high residuals are the big stumbling block. My guess is that you'll see some more coming up for sale, but not like the flood of off-lease Leafs likely in the next year or two.
 
cwerdna said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
I have only have the link that someone Mike? provided on Seattle EVA page which I am sure is the one you referred to earlier.
I didn't find anything on Seattle EVA.

Felix over at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/2280245908673500/?comment_id=2280254868672604&reply_comment_id=2281468325217925&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D is asserting $6500 to $7000 discount but then pointed to Martin Chevrolet which has artificially low by $1500 prices because of the $1500 current GM lessee discount which I wouldn't be eligible for.

If your $7K reference is to that, in reality, it's $5K to $5.5K.
Ok. So, I submitted a request for quote via Consumer Reports auto buying service which apparently uses TrueCar. It came back with 3 dealers and the prices have a big variance. One is WAY too high and another is pretty high.

The best one has prices lower than any openly advertised prices on Bay Area (and some beyond) dealers I've checked. The discount there off MSRP ends up being $5,957. It's about $1500 below Edmunds TMV and about $4100 below invoice.

I also submitted a request for Costco's program. The dealer happens to be the same as the above, but I won't find out the price until I get there. It may not be a better deal.

I spoke with 2 Bolt drivers and Facebook PMed 2 others earlier today. They all liked the range. Two of them mentioned buggy software for the car's electronics (running the dash LCD and the other large LCD). Three of them had Leafs before (and one still has one, I believe). Only one mentioned the seats were terrible, but she's a wide person so I can totally get that.
 
Some dealers order cars without popular options like DCFC and the comfort package (heated seats and wheel) for a lower price, and then end up having to discount them more. Decide what options are must-have and which are optional, so you can narrow it down. Also decide if you are ok with the interiors that have blinding-white dashboards. GM really made deciding on a Bolt a game of "How much annoyance and disappointment can I stand?" I know you want a Premiere for the AVM, and IIRC they MAY all come with the heated seats and wheel, but double-check that.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Some dealers order cars without popular options like DCFC and the comfort package (heated seats and wheel) for a lower price, and then end up having to discount them more. Decide what options are must-have and which are optional, so you can narrow it down. Also decide if you are ok with the interiors that have blinding-white dashboards. GM really made deciding on a Bolt a game of "How much annoyance and disappointment can I stand?" I know you want a Premiere for the AVM, and IIRC they MAY all come with the heated seats and wheel, but double-check that.
I'm getting Premier trim, no exceptions. Surround Vision (equivalent of AVM) is a must. I will have big regrets if I don't get that.

I may listen to the base stereo to see if it's acceptable, but I didn't really notice many dealers having a Premiers with DC FC but no infotainment package (adds Bose stereo). I suspect I would have regrets if I didn't get the better stereo.

As for DC FC inlet, I'm intending this to be my only car. DC FC is must given that I can only charge at 120 volts at home and have to go elsewhere for L2 (work or (now very limited/hard to get) free public L2 charging).

Yeah, I'd heard about the complaints of dashboard reflection and I asked one driver about that. She said yes. For the exterior colors I'm interested in: summit white, silver ice metallic and possibly slate gray metallic (haven't seen one in person yet), there are only 2 or 3 interior colors. Seems like one of them, the "light ash gray..." has a lighter dash. I'll probably avoid that one, if I can.

Yes, I've seen numerous Bolts when browsing inventory without DC FC of both the LT (lower) trim and Premier. No thanks.

One of the drivers I spoke to complained about the sun visors. She said they basically weren't tall enough to block much and didn't have extenders (she had a Leaf S before that was I think '14 or '15). Sure enough, from https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/bolt-ev/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-chevrolet-bolt-monthly-update-for-december-2017.html, it seems like the visors are crap (like '11 or '12 Leafs).

https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/bolt-ev/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-chevrolet-bolt-monthly-update-for-october-2017.html has a mention that they unintentionally pushed their Bolt to the limits on a charge. They did 322 miles on a charge!

One thing that was quite surprising when comparing specs is that Bolt is 11 inches shorter than gen 1 Leaf: 164 vs. 175 inches.
 
You'll be surprised at how small the Bolt is in "person" if you haven't walked around one yet. It is tall enough and just wide enough to avoid seeming like a Tiny Car, though, and the interior at least looks roomy. The seats...well, if you find a specific car you like, and the driver's seat feels hard, or jabs you in the left thigh, that can be fixed - or at least ameliorated a bit. If you are a smaller guy that will help a lot. There seems to be too much variation from car to car to be explained by anything other than GM deciding to practice random acts of cruelty. I think there is a fix for the visor, but I don't recall details. I spent a LOT of time in the Bolt forum on this site, and it was useful. You should check it out. If you click on the forum, at the top of the page here, and are lucky, the site will offer to sign you in there, as well.

Oh, and about the dash: I decided that there were two interiors I could stand: the ash grey, and one with a checkerboard white & dark grey on the seats. ALL of the Bolts have white pieces on the dash, though, I now recall. The sales guy told me (as he was instructed, no doubt) that people get used to the white easily enough. I wasn't sure, but...my Leaf SL has the white interior, with white dash. I put cheap but nicely patterned black & grey covers on the seats, so I only think about them in the context of how $##@! hard that leather is in cold weather. But the dash too really has faded from my attention, and the car is a bit cooler in Hot weather...
 
^^^
Thanks for the info.

I definitely have walked around Bolts as we have at least a dozen or two at my work. I sometimes plug them in. And, some of them show up to free public L2 charging I use. I went looking in our work's EV/PHEV registry to see how many '19 Bolts there were of the the new for '19 "slate gray metallic" color (https://electrek.co/2018/05/08/chevy-bolt-ev-2019-options-updates/) and there were none. I don't care about the other two new colors. At least I walked by one silver Bolt (my 1st choice). One Bolt driver I spoke to has a dark grey one (I dislike that color). Her former Leaf was the color, as well.

One thing that is a bit concerning long term is about how well the seats will hold up per https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/bolt-ev/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-chevrolet-bolt-monthly-update-for-september-2018.html. They said
Interior
"The Bolt's been in our fleet for 18 months [since February 2017], but I recently drove it for the first time. I have to admit my first impression upon opening the driver's door was 'rental car.' It's looking pretty tired for a vehicle with less than 20,000 miles. The fabric on the driver's seat is well-worn with some evident stretching. The mats were dirty and spotted. Maybe we've been extra hard on this car, but we spent just north of $42,000 on the Bolt. And you'd expect a car that costs that much to hold up a little better.
Funny they said "fabric" because I looked back and they got a Premier trim which should've had leather. Judging by other pics in the long-term updates, they seem to have leather.

I already know the interior quality isn't great.
 
The leather-covered seats look and feel more like ventilated pleather. I'd definitely get seat covers, and even if the driver's seat feels ok when new, I'd also perform the fix (thought up by me and undoubtedly others) that consists of placing medium-density plastic foam underneath the bottom of the driver's seat cushion. That both softens and slightly raises the too-hard seat cushion, which can otherwise put your thigh or butt in contact with the plastic side rails. If the seat pokes you in the left thigh, that is likely a too-long bolt used to fasten the seat together. It needs to be shortened or replaced. Chevy Bolt: the car you finish building yourself! Now it's off to bed for me.
 
seat covers might be a good idea. I know one Bolter who did that adding padding in the process. Haven't talked to him lately so not sure how it all worked out but its like personal comfort which means you only need to try enough things until you get something you can live with. There are MILLIONS of options out there.

Some dealers used to be open to extended test drives overnight or a weekend. Doesn't hurt to ask. As far as charging? Even my 40 kwh LEAF allows me to charge infrequently without exceeding 80% SOC most of the time. You should be fine at least during work week with the extra range.
 
To continue discussion from another thread...
cwerdna said:
If I jump ship to Bolt, it'll be before April 1st, when GM's tax credit should be going to 1/2. Could happen even by end of this month. I'd be selling my Leaf and my Prius.
I just realized that https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-ev-electric-car lists the full and reduced tax credit dates, which confirms what IEVs said.

I've scheduled a 1 day Turo rental of a Bolt for Tuesday. Unfortunately, there are only two in my area and both are '17.
 
cwerdna said:
I've scheduled a 1 day Turo rental of a Bolt for Tuesday. Unfortunately, there are only two in my area and both are '17.
Ok. Turo rental's in my garage and needs to be returned tomorrow afternoon.

I dislike the fact there's no % SoC display, just a GOM along w/min and max values + 20 fuel bars. Displays overall are pretty nice. Apple CarPlay combined w/the large (10.2 inch) LCD, OMG! Apple Maps and/or Google Maps (satellite view works on it) on it are pretty awesome compared to the primitive nav system on my Leaf. (Yes, '18+ Leaf can have CarPlay but the screen's smaller.) The ergonomics of the controls (knobs and buttons) in the center are not bad. Bose stereo is decent, maybe a bit worse than in my Leaf.

The '17 front seats are terrible. Although I'm of ok width and they seem contoured well enough, they're just really hard and something is off about them. I didn't find the ride to be particularly bad. Seemed not far off from Leaf which isn't as smooth as my 02 Maxima was (which subpar handling and brakes).

Intellibeam is interesting but has some quirks. There seems to be less trunk space than my '13. Drivetrain seems noisier than my '13 Leaf. Acceleration is GREAT! Besides the interior quality being poor (cheap hard plastics), car feels less refined than my Leaf. The strip of blue lighting at night is kinda nice. I liked L mode (basically like e-Pedal on '18+ Leaf). You can come to stop w/o pressing any pedals. There's no forward creep in L.

GM definitely does quite a bit of stuff differently than Nissan from a controls and interior POV. There seems to be no way to fully close any vents or adjust their output. Nissans and Toyota usually have that. People who hate the piece of hard plastic on the '18+ Leafs between the shifter and center stack would love the Bolt. It doesn't have a piece like that.

I'm worried about all the extra cycles the car seems to put on the HID headlights. I didn't see a way of disabling the auto-headlight behavior and how much it likes turning on the headlights by itself. Will need to dig into that if I buy.

This is the first car I've driven (AFAIK) where it lets you set a speed limit (you set the speed) warning chime speed.

Man... if only Nissan or Toyota had a refined EV with 238 mile EPA range back in Dec 2016 w/battery thermal management, cells that didn't degrade rapidly, reliability, CarPlay and Android Auto w/as big a screen and interior quality comparable to '18 Leaf...

If I get one... @Turbo3 needs to get a Bolt so that he can write Bolt Spy. :mrgreen:
 
The Bolt app does have a SOC display, as I mentioned earlier, so you have that available. Maybe what you need more is a "Bolt DD." Sign up at the Bolt forum here (the site should do it for you when you click on the Bolt icon or name, then wait a few seconds) and you'll be able to read all about improving the seats. At least you are lucky enough to not be simply too large for them. The ride may improve as the suspension wears in and if the tires get a bit lower in pressure - I didn't stick around the forum long enough to see anything about ride quality after a year or so. Did your car have the display freeze up? That was an issue, since many of the controls are virtual instead of physical. Later firmware is supposed to have helped that.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Did your car have the display freeze up? That was an issue, since many of the controls are virtual instead of physical. Later firmware is supposed to have helped that.
No. Never froze up but it's not like I've had the car for long.

From talking to other Bolt drivers telling me about the buggy software on their cars, it didn't sound like the locking up happened that often. The guy who told me about his lockups (both LCDs freeze, so speedometer's frozen too) didn't know the shortcut to reboot (holding down FF + home). I sent that his way.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The Bolt app does have a SOC display

I was going to bring this up too. The app is available through CarPlay, so you can get to it through the main screen while driving. Although you do have to connect your app to the car, and I don't know how easy this is for a rental. The nice thing about the app is that it continues to show % SoC when the battery is very low. When the car gets below 10%, the dash display just starts flashing, just like my 2012 Leaf used to do. Right when you need SoC the most, it is taken away from you. The app gives it back.

cwerdna said:
I'm worried about all the extra cycles the car seems to put on the HID headlights. I didn't see a way of disabling the auto-headlight behavior and how much it likes turning on the headlights by itself. Will need to dig into that if I buy.

You can. There is a button on the headlight stalk to turn the intellibeam feature on/off. If you owned the car, a brief search of the owner's manual would tell you where it is.
 
IEVS:
Chevy Bolt Winter Fast Charging: Cold Versus Warm Battery: Video
https://insideevs.com/chevy-bolt-winter-fast-charging-video/

. . . In the case of Ste’s Chevrolet Bolt EV, the deeply discharged and cold battery was able to accept less than 15 kW from a 50 kW EVgo charger, which triples the time and expense (if charging fee is by minutes).

The charging hardly exceed 15 kW after 10 minutes, and then slowly increased to 20 kW after 25 minutes. The last 15-20 minutes brought charging to over 30 kW as the battery has warmed to levels that permit a faster charge rate.

After some 45 minutes of charging, only 17.1 kWh was dispensed. . . .

In the second test (see video below), when the battery was warmed up after driving, 17.4 kWh was dispensed in just 23 minutes, which is twice as fast and could be half as cheap. . . .
 
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