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Just as a PSA to everyone on here if you plan on using electrify America chademo side, make sure you have backup plans/ a level 2 evse and adaptors with. I recently tried 2 of the new sites and one the card reader was broke, and even when I called them they couldn’t get it working. They even tried a remote start which failed. Another site failed to show pricing info, and after several reboots still failed to even let me continue without pricing info. These sites were heyburn, ID and Mountain Home, Idaho respectively. I’ve also heard from some other drivers Huntington, OR is having issues too. So charge at your own risk until EA fixes the bugs.
 
stutech said:
Just as a PSA to everyone on here if you plan on using electrify America chademo side, make sure you have backup plans/ a level 2 evse and adaptors with. I recently tried 2 of the new sites and one the card reader was broke, and even when I called them they couldn’t get it working. They even tried a remote start which failed. Another site failed to show pricing info, and after several reboots still failed to even let me continue without pricing info. These sites were heyburn, ID and Mountain Home, Idaho respectively. I’ve also heard from some other drivers Huntington, OR is having issues too. So charge at your own risk until EA fixes the bugs.
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Thanks for the heads-up. Sounds like the usual teething troubles.
 
GCC:
Electrify America restores full capacity to fast-charging network after testing clears cables
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https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/01/20190129-ea.html

. . . Since the event became known, HUBER+SUHNER carried out intensive investigations and tests, in some cases also together with its customers and partners. These also included tests on the entire charging system with high-power charging cables from series production.

The tests confirmed the correct functionality of the system and proved that the series products supplied by HUBER+SUHNER meet the required standards without any restrictions, both individually and in the entire charging system. . . .
Click to expand...
 
GetOffYourGas said:
As I wrote on the “Mission E” thread, I take this as good news. VWAG is taking EVs seriously. EA’s network is now critics to the success of one of their flagship products. Unlike a certain other network, EA is not a walled garden; it is available for all EVs to use. That they have financial motivation to maintain and improve it is a boon to all EV drivers.
Click to expand...

EA doesn't have to be a protocol "walled garden" with its pricing scheme. Don't be surprised to see VW giving favorable pricing scheme for its customers while we are left out in the cold.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
EA doesn't have to be a protocol "walled garden" with its pricing scheme. Don't be surprised to see VW giving favorable pricing scheme for its customers while we are left out in the cold.
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The fresh stink of hyperbole in the morning.
Remove the CHAdeMO connector, then you have something to whine about.
 
SageBrush said:
The fresh stink of hyperbole in the morning.
Remove the CHAdeMO connector, then you have something to whine about.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, most electric cars are Tesla's and CHAdeMO's. No Tesla connectors, but then again we were not expecting any, eh?

Exactly one CHAdeMO cable, shared with a CCS cable. Even at locations with 23 other cables.

50kW CHAdeMO, even with all other cables at 150kW, 350kW and perhaps even more.

Oh no, no bias at all.

But hey, if VW actually ends the standards war by putting a whole pile of CCS chargers out there, that's probably a good thing. Nissan will just end up putting CCS on their new cars, and old cars will just have to find old chargers for longer trips. If VW puts enough CCS units out there so that Telsa's standard also dies, probably even better. Look children, this exhibit shows an electric charger from 2020 that was just for one brand of car...
 
Look chidren, here is a network that cost Billions to build that cannot be used by 90% of the EVs that people are buying.
 
SageBrush said:
Look chidren, here is a network that cost Billions to build that cannot be used by 90% of the EVs that people are buying.
Click to expand...

Said network does not exist. Teslas can use EA with an adaptor. And Tesla sells far more than 10% of EVs that people are buying (so obviously you aren't referring to superchargers).
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
GetOffYourGas said:
As I wrote on the “Mission E” thread, I take this as good news. VWAG is taking EVs seriously. EA’s network is now critics to the success of one of their flagship products. Unlike a certain other network, EA is not a walled garden; it is available for all EVs to use. That they have financial motivation to maintain and improve it is a boon to all EV drivers.
Click to expand...

EA doesn't have to be a protocol "walled garden" with its pricing scheme. Don't be surprised to see VW giving favorable pricing scheme for its customers while we are left out in the cold.
Click to expand...

EA is giving "favorable pricing" for its customers. The Taycan comes with 3 years free! If that's not favorable pricing, nothing is. And no, I'm not surprised by it. Nor am I upset. Sure, I wish that they were more in line with EVGo's pricing. But the truth is, if you could actually use 150kW, the pricing is better than EVGo's (3X the power for much less than 3X the cost).
 
I expect that Tesla will eventually start converting SC stalls as well as the Model 3/Y to CCS-1 in the U.S., as that's rapidly becoming the standard here, with all legacy U.S., European, and Korean companies using it. As of now, who's using CHAdeMO? Nissan and Mitsubishi? Honda bailed to CCS. What will likely determine the final fate of CHAdeMO outside Japan will be Toyota's decision on what standard to use, once they start producing BEVs for the world market.

Tesla's already providing GB/T for China and CCS-2 for the E.U., and the justification for continuing to expand the SC network while serving only Teslas is rapidly fading. After all, the SC network was built because "We can't afford to wait for others to do it", or words to that effect from Elon. As others are now 'doing it', the need for Tesla to continue going it alone (and sinking large amounts of cash they need for other programs) is not there. And agreeing to a single nationwide or even better continent-wide charging standard can only help in accomplishing Tesla's original mission, which isn't to build cars or chargers, it's "to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable transport" (later modified to "accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy", reflecting the acquisition of Solar City, battery storage etc).
 
I wish I had your optimism, Guy. I don't see Tesla installing CCS plugs for a while. For now, having the supercharging network helps them sell more cars. I know of people who would rather have bought a Bolt, but chose a Model 3 for the supercharging network, for example.

In a few years, when EA + EVGo + ChargePoint + others start to approach the coverage that Tesla has, that advantage will be gone. At that point, it would make sense for Tesla to open their network and sell electricity to other drivers as well.

Back in 2016, when Tesla first showed the Model 3's charging port, the first thing I noticed was how large it was. I'll admit, I was hoping that maybe they would release the car with a CCS plug. While that hasn't happened in the US, it has overseas, as you point out. This is encouraging indeed. Hopefully the next iteration of the S/X design follows suit with a larger, more accommodating charge port door.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
I wish I had your optimism, Guy. I don't see Tesla installing CCS plugs for a while. For now, having the supercharging network helps them sell more cars. I know of people who would rather have bought a Bolt, but chose a Model 3 for the supercharging network, for example.

In a few years, when EA + EVGo + ChargePoint + others start to approach the coverage that Tesla has, that advantage will be gone. At that point, it would make sense for Tesla to open their network and sell electricity to other drivers as well.

Back in 2016, when Tesla first showed the Model 3's charging port, the first thing I noticed was how large it was. I'll admit, I was hoping that maybe they would release the car with a CCS plug. While that hasn't happened in the US, it has overseas, as you point out. This is encouraging indeed. Hopefully the next iteration of the S/X design follows suit with a larger, more accommodating charge port door.
Click to expand...
I wasn't suggesting that they'd open up the SCs to CCS cars from other manufacturers now, only that they'd switch to CCS themselves going forward at some point, allowing their future cars to use not only the SC network, but also all other CCS QC networks (as they can use CHAdeMO, albeit with an adapter). As the % of Teslas fitted with CCS instead of Tesla connectors increased, they would gradually switch more and more of the connectors over, but always leaving one or two on the old standard until the Model S/Xs are gone. It might eventually make sense to open the SC network up to other makes when they can do the billing, and the number of non-Teslas outnumber the Teslas. At that point it would probably make sense to spin off the SC network into a separate for-profit company, but grandfather in current owners at the (supposedly non-profit) old rates.
 
"Electrify America Chief Provides Update On EV Charging Build-Out

The plan for a new massive network of ultra-fast networks faces challenges. But it’s on track, according to Electrify America."

https://insideevs.com/exclusive-electrify-america-ev-charging/

"Electrify America, which is in regular dialogue with all the EV makers, has insight into the timing for cars that can handle higher charging rates. They are primarily from European, Korean, and Chinese automakers. “If you build up 50-kilowatt stations now, then it’s very likely that you will be obliged to update that station no longer than 12 months,” said Palazzo. He explained that the emerging charging technology requires Electrify America to offer 150- to 350-kW charging."
 
IEVS:
Electrify America To Add Tesla Powerpacks To 100 New Charging Stations
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https://insideevs.com/electrify-america-tesla-powerpacks-charging-stations/

. . . Some may ask why onsite energy storage is necessary for EV charging, and the simple answer is demand charges. Demand charges are based on the highest draw the customer (in this case all the charging stations at one location) uses from the utility during a set period of time in a given month, usually carved up into 15-minute intervals.

Demand charges vary from utility to utility in the US, but they are so costly they make it nearly impossible for DC Fast charge stations to even break even, let alone be profitable. For example, I own and manage a 24 kW DC fast charger on my property in Montclair, NJ. I pay 12 cents per kWh for my electricity supply, but because the DC Fast charger pulls so much energy at once, I have to pay demand charges for it, pushing the cost of my electricity up well over $1.00 per kWh. . . .

The reason we haven’t seen widespread use of battery storage with EV charging sites has been the upfront cost. Network providers have done the math, and it was less expensive to just pay the demand charges, than it would have been to spend $50,000 to $100,000 for the onsite battery storage systems. Hopefully, this announcement means the cost is finally getting down to the point where it is becoming financially viable.

Each Electrify America site in this program will consist of a 210 kW battery system, with roughly 350 kWh of capacity. They have a modular design, and will allow for more capacity to be added over time. That will become necessary, once there are multiple EVs plugging in and pulling 150+ kW at the same location. . . .
Click to expand...
 
GetOffYourGas said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
GetOffYourGas said:
As I wrote on the “Mission E” thread, I take this as good news. VWAG is taking EVs seriously. EA’s network is now critics to the success of one of their flagship products. Unlike a certain other network, EA is not a walled garden; it is available for all EVs to use. That they have financial motivation to maintain and improve it is a boon to all EV drivers.
Click to expand...

EA doesn't have to be a protocol "walled garden" with its pricing scheme. Don't be surprised to see VW giving favorable pricing scheme for its customers while we are left out in the cold.
Click to expand...

EA is giving "favorable pricing" for its customers. The Taycan comes with 3 years free! If that's not favorable pricing, nothing is. And no, I'm not surprised by it. Nor am I upset. Sure, I wish that they were more in line with EVGo's pricing. But the truth is, if you could actually use 150kW, the pricing is better than EVGo's (3X the power for much less than 3X the cost).
Click to expand...

EA isn't giving anything away. Porsche is and paying EA the same rate any other company can.

Jaguar can give their IPace customers three years of free charging if they want to and pay the same rate to EA Porsche is paying.

Favorable pricing to VW companies or customers is strictly prohibited by the settlement VW made with U.S. Prosecutors in dieselgate and is being enforced by the US Judge that approved the settlement.
 
GRA said:
I expect that Tesla will eventually start converting SC stalls as well as the Model 3/Y to CCS-1 in the U.S., as that's rapidly becoming the standard here, with all legacy U.S., European, and Korean companies using it. As of now, who's using CHAdeMO? Nissan and Mitsubishi? Honda bailed to CCS. What will likely determine the final fate of CHAdeMO outside Japan will be Toyota's decision on what standard to use, once they start producing BEVs for the world market.

Tesla's already providing GB/T for China and CCS-2 for the E.U., and the justification for continuing to expand the SC network while serving only Teslas is rapidly fading. After all, the SC network was built because "We can't afford to wait for others to do it", or words to that effect from Elon. As others are now 'doing it', the need for Tesla to continue going it alone (and sinking large amounts of cash they need for other programs) is not there. And agreeing to a single nationwide or even better continent-wide charging standard can only help in accomplishing Tesla's original mission, which isn't to build cars or chargers, it's "to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable transport" (later modified to "accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy", reflecting the acquisition of Solar City, battery storage etc).
Click to expand...

The only way the Supercharger standard is going away is the same way it is happening in the European Union and in China. By government fiat. They are doing so to benefit local automakers.

I don't see that happening in the US but stranger things have happened. Are supposedly free market Republicans going to essentially confiscate the Supercharger Network for Detroit? Are supposedly environmentalist Democrats going to squeeze out Tesla in favor of the makers of F-150s, Escalades, and Hemi Demons?
 
DeeAgeaux said:
I don't see that happening in the US but stranger things have happened. Are supposedly free market Republicans going to essentially confiscate the Supercharger Network for Detroit?
Click to expand...

Like the supposedly free market Republicans are blocking Tesla from selling in Texas?

DeeAgeaux said:
Are supposedly environmentalist Democrats going to squeeze out Tesla in favor of the makers of F-150s, Escalades, and Hemi Demons?

Like the supposedly environmentalist Democrats blocking Tesla from selling in Connecticut?
Click to expand...
 
DeeAgeaux said:
EA isn't giving anything away. Porsche is and paying EA the same rate any other company can.

Jaguar can give their IPace customers three years of free charging if they want to and pay the same rate to EA Porsche is paying.

Favorable pricing to VW companies or customers is strictly prohibited by the settlement VW made with U.S. Prosecutors in dieselgate and is being enforced by the US Judge that approved the settlement.
Click to expand...

There is a big difference between me paying my wife for something and paying your wife for something. One of them actually costs our family something. Jaguar is paying vw's wife. Porsche is paying his own wife.
 
Six new sites have opened, for six this month and 96 total: Spokane Valley, WA (I-90 E. of Spokane); Bristow, OK (I-44, bet. Tulsa and OKC); Collinsville, IL (N. Jct, I-55/I-255, E. of St. Louis); Rocky Mount, NC (Jct. I-95/U.S. 64); Brunswick, GA (I-95); Ormond Beach, FL (Jct. I-95/S.R. 40).

The opening of Bristow makes the trip between STL and OKC easy, and along with Ardmore and Collinsville also means that you can drive with care from Chicago to DFW. Collinsville also opens up areas west of STL on I-70, and I-55 south towards Memphis, albeit well short of it. for now you have to swing over to Paducah, then take I-69/U.S. 51 etc. to Memphis.

Rocky Mount, Brunswick and Ormond Beach make it possible (although with a detour to Carlisle, Pennsyvlania, and maybe also to Orlando), to drive I-95 between NYC and W. Palm Beach. Once open, the QCs in Cocoa and Port St. Lucie, FL will make it easy to get all the way to Miami.

The only thing Spokane Valley connects up to at the moment is Missoula. They need the QCs in Ellensburg and/or Hermiston, and one in Ritzville or at least Moses Lake.
 

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