GRA
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:30 pm

To provide some more info on Nikola's announcement, via GCC:
The battery-electric trucks will be available in 500 kWh, 750 kWh and 1,000 kWh configurations. The company is positioning the all-battery versions for short haul, while the hydrogen fuel cell versions are targeted for long haul.

The Nikola One will, for the moment, remain hydrogen only, as it is targeted for long-haul operations, being equipped with a sleeper cab.

Nikola went on to emphasize that the hydrogen trucks are 5,000 lbs lighter than the battery-electric trucks, and cheaper for long haul applications even with current hydrogen costs. Nikola positions battery-electric for inner cities and non-weight-sensitive applications.

We will see 50:1 more hydrogen orders but [for] some applications BEV works great.

—Nikola tweet

As a comparison between the two powertrains, Nikola said that:

A battery-electric truck at 80,000 lbs uses ~ 2.25 kWh per mile in real weather and normal hills on routes. A 1 MWh configuration (1,000 kWh) will support a range of about 400 miles, with 90% of the battery being usable. In cold weather, that will drop to 300 miles. A 1MWh pack will used 69,000 21700 cells.

The fuel cell version of the 80,000lb truck requires the same 2.25 kWh/mile as the battery version, and will get around 7-10 miles per kg H2. The weight of the fuel cell system is about 3,000 - 5,000 lbs less than that of the battery system. . . .
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... ikola.html

Any trucking company calculating the relative costs of FCEV vs. BEV will do so based on ton-mile costs and time (along with longevity, reliablity and maintenance). BEVs make the most sense for P&D and shorter-range distribution, because their weight isn't an issue (no scales for local trips, and some distribution routes won't encounter them or can avoid them without wasting a lot of time), and they are returning to the same location each day with significant idle time.

Long haul is a different matter - the cost of the extra tractors you need to haul the weight you couldn't (legally) carry in the heavier BEV adds up, as does fueling time. I expect the last will be especially significant once semis become autonomous, as no provision will be needed for driver stop requirements, only energy replenishment. California has already passed a law allowing a 2,000 lb. overweight for AFV trucks, apparently at the behest of the NG truck lobby, and H2 will probably add about the same or more - a BEV semi would bump the tare weight even more, requiring an even greater overweight if the load isn't reduced. As I've previously stated, I'm not a fan of such laws given the extra road damage they cause, and whether or how much we may see expansion of them remains to be seen. Here's a related article, via IEVS:
For Electric Trucks, 500-Mile Range Seems To Be The Sweet Spot
https://insideevs.com/electric-truck-500-mile-range/
. . . In a recent research study, it was found that the “Electric truck market is expected to attain a market size of 1,508.1 thousand units by 2025.” Yes, that’s an odd unit of numerical measure there. But we won’t dwell on that.

Let’s move on to electric range. This is where the figures are more meaningful to us. The report states:
  • Based on range, the electric truck market is categorized into 0-150 miles, 151-250 miles, 251-500 miles, and above 500 miles. The market for electric trucks with a range of above 500 miles is projected to register the highest growth, with a growth rate of over 30% in terms of volume, during the forecast period, owing to the growing demand for long-haul trucks.
This implies that range is a big factor, with the highest growth predicted in the highest range segment of above 500 miles. That range is not easy to achieve in a big, heavy-hauler though without lots of battery. For example, Nikola Motors says that the 1 MWh battery pack in is expected to give Nikola Two a range of 400 miles (640 km) or 300 miles (480 km) in cold weather. Nikola adds that such a big battery will weigh half of the truck’s weight.

So, you get the idea here. To get lots of range in a semi it takes loads of batteries and adds a ton of weight. Or perhaps a new, super advanced battery that’s unlike anything we’ve ever seen. . . .
Maybe batteries will improve to the point that FCEVs lose their weight/range/longevity/fueling time advantages, maybe not. In any case, arguing about which is better here is silly - the trucking companies employ people to do those calcs and figure out the LCC given the operational requirements, and they're far better positioned to make those judgments than anyone here. You can be sure that they will make those calcs.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:33 pm

GCC:
New Flyer 40' and 60' Xcelsior fuel cell buses complete Altoona testing; eligible for FTA, HVIP funding
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... -fceb.html
. . . The Xcelsior FCEBs are battery-dominant hybrids, based on the standard Xcelsior CHARGE electric propulsion system. The battery provides the bus with short-term power and energy, while the fuel cell system acts like a steady-state battery charger, operating in an optimal efficiency zone.

The hydrogen fuel cell can extend the range of a battery-electric bus to up to 300 miles on a single refueling and requires no off-board electric recharging.

With this important accomplishment, the FCEBs are commercially available for sale utilizing FTA funding. Both models will also be eligible for California’s Hybrid and Zero-Emission Truck and Bus Voucher Incentive Project (HVIP).

The current $300,000 HVIP voucher incentive covers 40-foot transit buses and Class 8 trucks powered exclusively by hydrogen fuel cells. Both funding opportunities enable transit agencies to support the transition to zero-emission operations.

New Flyer’s Xcelsior FCEBs offer extended range in excess of 260 miles; rapid refueling with hydrogen in less than 10-minutes; 95% material recycling; and full route flexibility. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:34 pm

So, these New Flyer H2 FCVs have a curb weight of 31,500 lbs. and a range of 260 to 300+ miles. Proterra BEV buses with the same curb weight (and a MUCH lower COG) have a range of 210 to 341 miles. Since the Proterra at that weight contains a 550-kWh battery, I seriously doubt the fuel cell on the New Flyer attains the average efficiency of 56% implied by claiming that a 37.5 kg hydrogen tank has "Equivalent Battery Energy" as a 700-kWh battery. Or perhaps the Proterra drivetrain is simply more efficient than that found in the New Flyer. If you need more range, the Proterra is also available with a 660-kWh battery at a curb weight of 33,150 lbs. that offers a range of 245 to 390 miles.

Let's review the "advantages" of the New Flyer H2 FCV bus:
- 10-minute empty-to-full refueling (the 660-kWh Proterra with overhead charging can gain 24 miles of range during a 10-minute stop)
- Available in a 60-foot version
- Costs more to purchase (likely much more than even the 660-kWh Proterra with DuoPower and overhead charging)
- Refueling infrastructure costs significantly more
- Fuel costs significantly more
- Maintenance costs more
- Reliability is lower
- Top heavy (But don't worry: when they tip over, New Flyer blames the driver.)

It's a "solution" only someone spending OPM could love.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:24 pm

GCC:
First electric Volvo trucks delivered to customers
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... volvo.html
Volvo Trucks delivered its first all-electric vehicles on 19 February: a refuse truck to waste and recycling company Renova, and a distribution truck to the logistics company DB Schenker and partner haulier TGM, operating in Sweden. . . .

The Volvo FL Electric trucks are part of a pre-series developed in collaboration with selected customers. Series production of the Volvo FL Electric (earlier post) and its powerful sibling, the Volvo FE Electric (earlier post), will commence with a limited number of trucks for the European markets in the second half of 2019. . . .

The Volvo FL Electric and Volvo FE Electric trucks are developed for distribution, refuse handling and other urban transport applications. The Volvo FL Electric has capacity for a GVW (gross vehicle weight) of 16 tonnes, while the Volvo FE Electric has capacity for a GVW of 27 tonnes.

Also GCC:
Mercedes-Benz delivers electric eActros heavy-duty truck to Logistik Schmitt for testing; countering catenaries
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... ctros.html
. . . As part of the eWayBW project, commercial transport will be electric on the B462 federal road around Rastatt with the test operation of catenary trucks as of 2020. On an approximately 18 km long pilot track on the B462, three sections with a total length of almost 6 km will be electrified.

While preparations for the construction of the necessary infrastructure are still ongoing, at a cost of some €17.6 million (US$20 million), the eActros is mobile with its battery-electric drive, fully flexible and in need of only minimal infrastructure; nothing more than a charging station, Mercedes-Benz Trucks points out.

Daimler has taken the position that due to the high infrastructure costs involved, the company does not see potential in overhead lines at present; also in view of the rapid development of battery and fuel cell technology.

From spring of this year, Logistik Schmitt will be operating the eActros in place of a conventional diesel truck as part of a field test transporting transmission housings. The eActros will be tested on an around 7km stretch in a demanding three-shift system between Logistik Schmitt’s warehouse in Ötigheim and Rastatt's Mercedes-Benz Gaggenau plant. The daily tour of the 25-tonne truck totals around 168 kilometers.

This represents the kick-off to a series of eActros field tests taking place over several years in the Murg valley and the surrounding region. As a next step, comparative tests with the catenary project will be carried out with an advanced version of the eActros as a semitrailer tractor variant with higher tonnage and range. . . .

In the first phase of the eActros test operation, Logistik Schmitt is integrating a vehicle with a swap body into the company fleet. The eActros transports up to twelve tonnes and drives twelve tours a day. The batteries in the eActros are charged also while the vehicle is being loaded or unloaded so that the total 200-kilometer range of the eActros can be optimally used. Initially the vehicle will be charged using a mobile charging station.

Second phase: parallel testing with the catenary truck. As of the second phase of the eActros project in the Murg valley, the 25-tonne truck from the first phase will be replaced by an advanced version of the electric truck in form of a semitrailer tractor unit.

Using the eActros semitrailer, Logistik Schmitt will deliver axle components along the 14 kilometers from the warehouse in Ötigheim to the Mercedes-Benz Gaggenau plant—mainly via the B462. This route is, for the most part, the same as that for the catenary project.

The specifications of the eActros semitrailer truck will be comparable to those of the overhead catenary trucks, among other things in terms of the higher tonnage and range. This parallel testing of the eActros and the catenary trucks will take place for approximately one year and will deliver data and findings necessary for comparing both concepts, e.g. in what way the vehicles are suitable for this operation.

Third phase: direct comparison with the overhead catenary truck. During a third phase of the project, the eActros semitrailer truck will travel the exact catenary truck route for approximately one to two weeks so that a direct comparison can be made. This will serve to validate the second phase. During this direct comparison, the eActros will transport rolls of paper the 18 kilometers from the paper mills in Gernsbach-Obertsrot to the Fahrner logistics site in Kuppenheim—just like the trucks involved in the overhead-lines project.

A conventional diesel Actros equipped to the Euro VI emissions standard and fitted with measuring equipment will serve as a neutral starting point for the comparison of the concepts and will drive along the overhead-lines route. It will then be possible to compare the energy consumption of the electric trucks—battery-electric and catenary—with the consumption of the diesel truck. . . .

Also GCC:
GreenPower launches EV Star CarGO Van; EV with 6,000 lb payload and 570 ft3 capacity
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... power.html
GreenPower Motor Company Inc., a Canada-based manufacturer of electric buses, has launched the EV Star CarGO Van, an all-electric 25-foot cargo van with capacity of more than 570 cubic feet, a payload of up to 6,000 pounds, and an operational range of up to 150 miles on a single charge.

The EV Star CarGo Van, a variant of GreenPower’s 25' electric EV Star bus, can be configured with either a Level 2 or a CCS DC Fast charge system. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:03 pm

GCC:
Lion Electric launches battery-electric Class 8 urban truck
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... -lion.html
Canada-based Lion Electric Co. (Lion) has unveiled its first all-electric Class 8 urban truck this morning. The Lion8 will be commercialized this Fall and the first vehicle will be delivered to Société des Alcools du Québec (SAQ).

The Lion8 supports a battery capacity of up to 480 kWh (LG Chem NMC cells) for a range of up to 250 miles on a single charge. . . .

The standard on-board charging system is 19.2 kW AC (J1772); DC fast charging (CCS Combo) is available. The on-board charger has V2X capabilities.

The electric motor delivers up to 350 kW and 3,500 N·m of torque. The Lion8 has a maximum speed of 65 mpg (105 km/h).

Multiple wheelbase configurations are available, and the truck is available as a straight-body truck or a tractor. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:12 pm

Did they really give the speed as "65mpg"? Heh.
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GRA
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:05 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Did they really give the speed as "65mpg"? Heh.
Yes, but I figured most people could puzzle it out :D
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11049
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:47 pm

GCC:
New Flyer unveils Xcelsior CHARGE H2 bus; first to offer two fuel-cell-electric models eligible for federal funding
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... 3-nfi.html
New Flyer of America Inc. and New Flyer Industries Canada ULC . . . unveiled the Xcelsior CHARGE H2—ts fuel cell-electric heavy-duty transit bus—and announced that both the forty-foot and sixty-foot model have successfully completed the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) Model Bus Testing Program at Altoona, Pennsylvania (Altoona Testing).

This makes the Xcelsior CHARGE H2 the first sixty-foot fuel cell-electric bus to complete Altoona, and establishes New Flyer as the only manufacturer to offer both a forty-foot and sixty-foot fuel cell-electric model that qualifies for federal funding.

With a range of up to 300 miles (483 km), the bus can be refueled in 6-20 minutes depending on the model and operating conditions. . . .

New Flyer has more than 50 years of experience manufacturing zero-emission buses (ZEBs). It introduced its next-generation battery-electric bus, the Xcelsior CHARGE in 2017. With the addition of the Xcelsior CHARGE H2, New Flyer offers the most diverse lineup of commercially available zero-emission transit buses in North America, and remains the only North American manufacturer to provide all three types of ZEB propulsion systems: trolley-electric, all battery-electric, and fuel-cell-electric.

New Flyer is currently delivering 25 Xcelsior CHARGE H2 fuel cell-electric buses to three transit agencies as part of California Climate Investments (CCI). . . .

New Flyer currently has significant ZEB orders from major cities including Toronto, Boston, Minneapolis, New York, Portland, and Vancouver. In California alone, New Flyer has sold nearly 80 battery-electric buses, with active programs in Coachella Valley, Los Angeles, Oakland, Orange County, and San Diego. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11049
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:59 pm

GCC:
Impact Transportation deploys Orange EV electric yard truck to Port of Oakland operations; HVIP funding
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... mpact.html
Orange EV and Impact Transportation announced the deployment of an Orange EV T-Series battery-electric terminal truck to Impact’s 250,000 square foot warehouse and special project site supporting Port of Oakland operations.

Impact’s Orange EV truck is DOT compliant and built with an 80 kWh battery pack and standard charging. The pure-electric yard truck is used to pull containers, 53-foot vans, flatbeds, and large, heavy, out-of-gauge cargo.

According to onboard telematics data, Impact can operate the Orange EV truck for about 11 hours on a single charge if needed, although the site is routinely opportunity charging, plugging in to charge during breaks, shift changes, and other downtime.

Battery endurance varies as with a tank of diesel, where energy consumption can be higher or lower based on how hard the truck is working. Orange EV offers a range of equipment configurations to meet site-specific needs including larger battery pack (e.g., 160 kWh) and fast charging. With a 160 kWh battery pack, Impact could operate about 22 hours on a single charge. . . .

Impact Transportation utilized funding from the Hybrid and Zero-Emission Truck and Bus Voucher Incentive Project (HVIP) to purchase ththeeir Orange EV truck. HVIP is currently open, enabling discounts of up to $165,000 per Orange EV terminal truck. Fleets using Orange EV trucks can now also monetize site-generated carbon credits worth thousands of dollars per truck annually.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11049
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:30 pm

GCC:
Hyster to develop fuel-cell electric reachstacker for Port of Valencia
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... yster.html
Hyster Europe is developing a zero-emission reachstacker featuring a hydrogen fuel cell for the Port of Valencia, as part of the European Horizon 2020 program and H2Ports project. The port will be the first in Europe to incorporate hydrogen energy in its operations. . . .

The reachstacker is expected to enter operation in 2021, where it will undergo thorough testing handling laden shipping containers alongside several existing reachstackers. . . .

Hyster-Yale Group is participating in the H2Ports project alongside the Port Authority of Valencia, the Valenciaport Foundation, the National Hydrogen Center, MSC Terminal Valencia, Grimaldi Group, Atena, Ballard Power Systems Europe and ENAGAS.

The project has received funding from the Fuel Cells and Hydrogen Joint undertaking (FCHJU) which also includes the development of an electric yard tractor and the installation of a mobile hydrogen supply station.

The H2Ports project follows a similar development in the Port of Los Angeles and the electrification of a Hyster laden container handler powered by a Nuvera fuel cell engine.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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