2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Yes. The software update applies to the 2016/2017 model years only. It only fixes an incorrect reporting of actual loss. So the leaf you're looking at now as a legitimate 2 bar loss. Maybe after this summer or next summer, it'll qualify for a warranty replacement.

Thank you! Yes, with the 30 kWh battery in the 2016 SL, I'm pretty sure I'll get a free battery after a couple of summers in Phoenix.

Question on warranty replacements, when you do a covered replacement, does Nissan then give you a new warranty on the new battery they put in?
 
dbarkman said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Yes. The software update applies to the 2016/2017 model years only. It only fixes an incorrect reporting of actual loss. So the leaf you're looking at now as a legitimate 2 bar loss. Maybe after this summer or next summer, it'll qualify for a warranty replacement.

Thank you! Yes, with the 30 kWh battery in the 2016 SL, I'm pretty sure I'll get a free battery after a couple of summers in Phoenix.

Question on warranty replacements, when you do a covered replacement, does Nissan then give you a new warranty on the new battery they put in?

This was discussed, but I don't remember the details. I think the factory warranty is locked to the age of the car (with a modest bump for the age of the battery itself - maybe 90-days or 1 year?). Sorry, you should check out johnlocke's posts, as he actually had his 30kwh battery replaced under warranty.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
dbarkman said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Yes. The software update applies to the 2016/2017 model years only. It only fixes an incorrect reporting of actual loss. So the leaf you're looking at now as a legitimate 2 bar loss. Maybe after this summer or next summer, it'll qualify for a warranty replacement.

Thank you! Yes, with the 30 kWh battery in the 2016 SL, I'm pretty sure I'll get a free battery after a couple of summers in Phoenix.

Question on warranty replacements, when you do a covered replacement, does Nissan then give you a new warranty on the new battery they put in?

This was discussed, but I don't remember the details. I think the factory warranty is locked to the age of the car (with a modest bump for the age of the battery itself - maybe 90-days or 1 year?). Sorry, you should check out johnlocke's posts, as he actually had his 30kwh battery replaced under warranty.
Warranty is tied to the vehicle not the battery. If Nissan gives you a replacement battery, the warranty on the new battery is the remainder of the 100K or 8 years on the car. I.E, I had the battery replaced at 45K mi and 2 1/2 years so I have 55K mi and 5 1/2 years of warranty left. If I'm lucky, the new battery will fail before I hit 100K mi. Time is not an issue here because I drive 18K mi/yr. If the battery fails before I hit 100K, I'll probably drive the car for another year or 2 before trading it in. Otherwise, once I hit 100K, i'll trade in immediately. In the next 3 years there will be a lot of new BEV's introduced and I'll have a much wider selection to pick from when I do trade in the Leaf.

Just as a note, a 10 bar 30KWH battery is down to 75% of capacity already. 8 bars on my car represented 64% capacity (232 GID's) as shown by LeafSpy. You don't have far to go and even one summer in Phoenix may do it,
 
johnlocke said:
Just as a note, a 10 bar 30KWH battery is down to 75% of capacity already. 8 bars on my car represented 64% capacity (232 GID's) as shown by LeafSpy. You don't have far to go and even one summer in Phoenix may do it,

Thanks John, that's helpful!

Just to note it, after a full L2 charge, car showed 100%, this is what I got from LSP:
SOC = 97.7%
AHr = 57.69
SOH = 72.59
Hx = 43.39
GIDs = 264
odo = 16,798

2016 originally purchased in 2017, so I have 1 year of bumper to bumper warranty, 6 years or 83k miles left of capacity coverage, so yes I think I have time for probably 2 more batteries driving in Phoenix.

I like your plan for a trade in around 100k, by 2025, the EV selection should be immense compared to now.

Thanks!
 
Another vehicle with some data:

2016 model, I obtained vehicle 11/1/2018

Manufactured 10/2015.
Carfax says purchased 8/2016. Appeared to be driven 30k miles/year. Looks like Temecula, CA. My guess is 100 miles/day, 300 days/year, for 2 years.
Vehicle offered for sale 8/2018. I obtained 11/1/2018

10 bars.

From Leaf Spy Pro:

2018-11-01
After a full L2 charge, car showed 100%
SOC = 95.0%
AHr = 62.20
SOH - 78.26
Hx = 51.16
GIDs = 278 (77.9%)
odo = 62,464
21.5 kWh
QC = 44
L1/L2 = 1259

Another data point 3 months later:

2019-02-03
SOC = 54.7.0%
AHr = 58.12
SOH - 73.12
Hx = 42.62
GIDs = 148 (41.5%)
odo = 63,546
11.5 kWh
QC = 45
L1/L2 = 1330

I expect to drive it 4000-5000 miles per year.
 
I just passed 10k miles on my 2017 Leaf S and decided I would charge to 100% for the first time in months and get a LeafSpy reading.

Here's the stats:

AHr = 76.40
SOH = 96.13%
395.31V
Hx = 85.36%
odo = 9,9997
5 QC's
200 L1/L2s
SOC = 97.6%
min/ave/max = 4.115 4.118 4.125 (10 mV)
Temp F = 53.0 55.2 50.3 (4.9*)


I'm quite pleased! I did drive about 30 miles today with the heat set at 66, fan on 1, recirc on and still managed over 1 mi / % SOC.

So far, 95+% of my charging has been at outside at work. This summer I'm planning to start charging at home so I can charge during the early morning.
 
goldbrick said:
I just passed 10k miles on my 2017 Leaf S and decided I would charge to 100% for the first time in months and get a LeafSpy reading.

Here's the stats:

AHr = 76.40
SOH = 96.13%
395.31V
Hx = 85.36%
odo = 9,9997
5 QC's
200 L1/L2s
SOC = 97.6%
min/ave/max = 4.115 4.118 4.125 (10 mV)
Temp F = 53.0 55.2 50.3 (4.9*)


I'm quite pleased! I did drive about 30 miles today with the heat set at 66, fan on 1, recirc on and still managed over 1 mi / % SOC.

So far, 95+% of my charging has been at outside at work. This summer I'm planning to start charging at home so I can charge during the early morning.

395 volts? Looks like you got a little more room there.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
395 volts? Looks like you got a little more room there.

I don't know if it matters but it was about 35F outside when I started charging. I don't know how the the battery temperature affects the capacity and 100% voltage etc.

I haven't charged to 100% in a long time but it did seem to take longer than I remember for the current ramp down as it approached 100%.
 
For owners of 2016 30 kWh LEAFs, this article is worth a read:

http://evsenhanced.com/services/30kwh-leaf-cell-imbalance-and-complete-cell-failure/

Sounds like early 30 kWh packs have a higher than expected cell failure rate. For those that see a large imbalance in their battery stats via LeafSpy, you might want to proactively reach out to Nissan, citing the above article and your LeafSpy stats as evidence.
 
alozzy said:
For owners of 2016 30 kWh LEAFs, this article is worth a read:

http://evsenhanced.com/services/30kwh-leaf-cell-imbalance-and-complete-cell-failure/

Sounds like early 30 kWh packs have a higher than expected cell failure rate. For those that see a large imbalance in their battery stats via LeafSpy, you might want to proactively reach out to Nissan, citing the above article and your LeafSpy stats as evidence.
Nissan (and its dealerships) could not care less about LeafSpy. A customer would have to convince Nissan to check for a weak cell with a protocol they have but rarely use and I'll guess not even known about in many a dealership.

The test is called cvli
 
SageBrush said:
alozzy said:
For owners of 2016 30 kWh LEAFs, this article is worth a read:

http://evsenhanced.com/services/30kwh-leaf-cell-imbalance-and-complete-cell-failure/

Sounds like early 30 kWh packs have a higher than expected cell failure rate. For those that see a large imbalance in their battery stats via LeafSpy, you might want to proactively reach out to Nissan, citing the above article and your LeafSpy stats as evidence.
Nissan (and its dealerships) could not care less about LeafSpy. A customer would have to convince Nissan to check for a weak cell with a protocol they have but rarely use and I'll guess not even known about in many a dealership.

The test is called cvli

Yes, Nissan couldn't care less!
 
March update. 351 GID's , AH=76.68, SOH=96.48%, Hx=85.78%. 57,697 total mi, 12768 mi on new battery. 244 L2 and 11 L3 on new battery. 1118 total L2,125 total L3. Cool weather favors the battery and degradation is minimal. March and April will likely show the same effects. The real tests will be July, August, and September. If the battery survives the summer with minimal losses then perhaps Nissan has indeed fixed the problem. At this point I have 8 1/2 months on the new battery and It is performing slightly better than the original battery over the same time period. Unfortunately the two batteries are 180 degrees out of sync in regards to the seasons so the comparison isn't exact.
 
I'm at 41k mi (66k km) on my 2017 S in Colorado, zero bars down, haven't done the recall yet. It sounds like it's extremely rare for a 30kWh pack to go this far without losing bars pre-recall?
 
eatsleafsandshoots said:
I'm at 41k mi (66k km) on my 2017 S in Colorado, zero bars down, haven't done the recall yet. It sounds like it's extremely rare for a 30kWh pack to go this far without losing bars pre-recall?
Your climate has a lot to do with it. I would guess that you are a little unusual but without a Leafspy readout it's hard to tell. That first bar doesn't drop until SOH hits 84% or thereabouts. Keep in mind that this battery does just fine in Europe as well. Also that's a lot of miles on a '17 and frequent use seems to be good for the battery.
 
Will a pre-recall reading mean anything? I definitely agree with your assertion that frequent use seems to help. Our summers are warm but it does spend the whole winter outside at altitude.
 
Here is my experience with the update:

March 2018 before update:
Ahr 73.27 SOH 92.19 Hx 86.09

March 2018 after update:
76.98. 96.86. 86.81

Two weeks after update:
77.22. 97.16. 87.39

Dec 12 2018:
76.59. 96.36. 85.81

March 8 2019:
77.05 96.94 86.96

The most recent reading was after 3 100% charges, which seems to help a bit. Overall I'm not seeing much degradation, although I've only put 6100 miles on the car.
 
eatsleafsandshoots said:
Will a pre-recall reading mean anything? I definitely agree with your assertion that frequent use seems to help. Our summers are warm but it does spend the whole winter outside at altitude.
A pre-recall reading will at least show where you were. Better would be a current reading from Leafspy to see where you are now and how long it might be before you lose that first bar. If you haven't had the recall done yet, I'd suggest you schedule it soon and take readings from before and after.
 
eatsleafsandshoots said:
I'm at 41k mi (66k km) on my 2017 S in Colorado, zero bars down, haven't done the recall yet. It sounds like it's extremely rare for a 30kWh pack to go this far without losing bars pre-recall?

No. I was over 98% at 29,413 miles on mine so very unlikely I would have been close to being ½ a bar down by time time I hit your mileage level.

Don't spend a lot of time at high SOC and you will be fine. My advantage was driving 200 miles a day but usually left each morning at 40-75% SOC. I was stopping to charge 2-3 times a day which actually worked well with my work schedule as I used the opportunity to get work done that I would have had to do when I got home anyway and billed the time to my employer so not only was I charging for free, I was getting paid to do it! :)
 
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