Astros
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:21 am
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2018
Leaf Number: 310136
Location: Seattle, WA

BMS reset proof for dealership

Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:04 am

Yesterday I was helping an older friend shop for a new (to him) car, and so I wanted to show him a Leaf to compare with the Kia Soul and Honda Fit he was looking at. He was skeptical, but as soon as he drove it he was sold. Despite everything I had said about the Leaf in the past, he was still expecting a sluggish golf cart.

So, that was all fine, and after downgrading from an 2017 SV to an 2017 S we were able to get well within his budget, but I also was concerned about the battery. I hooked up LeafSpy, and read 79.16 aHr, 99.6% SOH, 92.04 Hx with 24,000 miles, 80 L3 and 363 L1/L2s. The nearly 100% SOH made me concerned that the BMS had been reset, so I insisted on talking with the service manager. Here things got frustrating, because she adamantly claimed that it was absolutely impossible to reset the BMS without replacing the battery, and anything I had heard to the contrary was false.

In the end, I decided that this Leaf was fine for my friend, since the 5% degradation shown by the aHr was probably realistic. But, does anyone have suggestions for good evidence I can point stubborn Nissan people to in the future? For those in Washington, this was at Tacoma Nissan.
2019 Deep Blue SL Plus

SageBrush
Posts: 4753
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: BMS reset proof for dealership

Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:36 am

The dealership is wrong.

Sorry to say, I suspect you gave your friend poor advice.
The way to handle these suspect cases is to either match miles driven to SoC fall over a longish test drive, or to head to a ChargePoint EVSE and match kWh delivered to SoC gained. Figure that ~ 12% of kWh delivered are losses that do not make it to the battery. If using a ChargePoint try to charge for at least an hour, preferably two.

These calcs are not exact but they are more than good enough to identify a battery reset.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2249
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: BMS reset proof for dealership

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:30 pm

The AHr and SOH numbers are probably correct if the car has lived in the cool Pacific Northwest for its entire life.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL+ purchased 8/10/2019

brunohill
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:36 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Oct 2017
Location: VK3

Re: BMS reset proof for dealership

Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:04 pm

Extract from Nissan Service Bulletin

IMPORTANT:
DO NOT “READ & WRITE” any Li-ion Battery Controller (LBC) data to the new HV
Battery Pack assembly.
Writing the old HV Batt ery Pack LBC data to the new HV Battery Pack assembly will
cause the vehicle to read only 8 bars of capacity and will require the LBC to be
replaced.

valem
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:24 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 405151

Re: BMS reset proof for dealership

Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:22 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:36 am
The dealership is wrong.

match kWh delivered to SoC gained. Figure that ~ 12% of kWh delivered are losses that do not make it to the battery.
Can you please elaborate on this? How do you match kWh to SOC to determine BMS reset?
And dash SOC or Leafspy SOC ?

Thanks
2013 Silver SL 35,800 mi
Tinted windows.
Battery replaced 05/15/17 @ 29,677 mi

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12988
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: BMS reset proof for dealership

Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:29 pm

The big problem here is that there is no established, recognized-by-Nissan way to prove a BMS reset to a Nissan dealership. It appears that they can establish the actual capacity using their diagnostic equipment (this is a requirement for warranty replacement of a pack) but they won't do that as a favor, service, or for any other reason than a warranty claim. You can show them KWH in vs miles driven, or whatever you like, but you've already seen what they will say (and this often represents what they "know" as well). The only thing that stands a reasonable chance of being counted as proof is a Leaf losing TWO capacity bars in a short time. Not one, two.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

alozzy
Posts: 1370
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: BMS reset proof for dealership

Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:20 am

That, and common sense really. The old adage "If it sounds (seems) too good to be true, it probably is..." applies to used Leaf purchases. Knowing where a used Leaf was originally sold, and where it spent most of its time, is a big factor - as we all know, heat is the biggest enemy of the LEAF packs...

For instance, if someone is looking to buy a used 2015 LEAF, finds one that LeafSpy reports has >90% SOH, and that car spent most of the time in SoCal or Arizona (or some other hot place) then a BMS reset is likely. But a PNW 2015 LEAF would very likely still have >90% SOH.

You could take a risk on an outlier that seems exceptionally good, but I personally wouldn't.

Use a Google search to find other posts on range tests - there are plenty already in these forums:

range test site:mynissanleaf.com
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

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