2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

DaveinOlyWA said:

gesingle said:

lorenfb said:

Congrats and welcome to MNL.

I was at a Nissan dealer this past week considering a 2019 SV (no Pro), but the lowest on a 3 yr was $3K plus $350/mo.
They indicated that in the next few weeks they might have a Plus. I'll wait and see how the 2019s sell and how motivated Nissan
is to "move" the 2019s this summer.

I've been a little concerned that the LeafSpy app might not communicate with the 2019 Leafs. Are you aware of the LeafSpy app
that runs on iOS & Android? It can provide a lot info on the Leaf's battery. There's a free version for download. You might consider
downloading the app and providing MNL some battery data about your new Leaf.

Click to expand...

I downloaded the latest iOS LeafSpy Pro from the Apple store, version 1.7.38. OBDII scanner is an LELink 2 for Bluetooth. It connected right up and seems to be working fine. The Model Year settings had dropdowns for 2019 and battery size 60 kWh (not 62, but close enough). I'm still tinkering with it, but once I get some good logs I can post some data such as the SOC at the knee requested by DaveinOlyWA. Is there other data that some might find useful?

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Awesome!!

Yeah, add anything that seems interesting. Ahr would be good. kwh available at full charge. GIDs at full charge.

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Here are some LeafSpy readings during and after a topping off charge. This is with an L2 charger.

Just before current ramp down (knee):
SOC = 97.57%
GIDs = 759
Volts = 403.6
Pack Amps = 15.0
OBC Out Pwr = 5.9 kW

At end of charging:
SOC = 98.6%
kWh = 59.4
Ah = 173.37
Volts = 403.5
Temp = 67.3F (max)
GIDs = 767
230.2 Miles -> 5% @ 4.0 mi/kWh

When my battery was in its first 2 years, if I kept it at 55 (highways around Chicago are still 55mph), and let it drift up and down a bit on hills, I could keep it at 5 miles per kWh. Even with light AC. Now that my battery is lower and I have grippier tires for the snow, I don’t get close.

767 Gids seems about right. My 2013 never showed more then 257 Gids, I think due to the early advice of never charging about 80%. That will feel like a full 3x range assuming the efficiency gains balance the additional weight of the car.

DougWantsALeaf said:

That will feel like a full 3x range assuming the efficiency gains balance the additional weight of the car.

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What efficiency gains were made with the e-Plus?

gesingle said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

gesingle said:

I downloaded the latest iOS LeafSpy Pro from the Apple store, version 1.7.38. OBDII scanner is an LELink 2 for Bluetooth. It connected right up and seems to be working fine. The Model Year settings had dropdowns for 2019 and battery size 60 kWh (not 62, but close enough). I'm still tinkering with it, but once I get some good logs I can post some data such as the SOC at the knee requested by DaveinOlyWA. Is there other data that some might find useful?

Click to expand...

Awesome!!

Yeah, add anything that seems interesting. Ahr would be good. kwh available at full charge. GIDs at full charge.

Click to expand...

Here are some LeafSpy readings during and after a topping off charge. This is with an L2 charger.

Just before current ramp down (knee):
SOC = 97.57%
GIDs = 759
Volts = 403.6
Pack Amps = 15.0
OBC Out Pwr = 5.9 kW

At end of charging:
SOC = 98.6%
kWh = 59.4
Ah = 173.37
Volts = 403.5
Temp = 67.3F (max)
GIDs = 767
230.2 Miles -> 5% @ 4.0 mi/kWh

Click to expand...

Nice. Now we need to get on a fast charger and see what happens. That 767 GIDs makes my high of 514 GIDs look a bit... "pedestrian"

Others, will please post your high GID settings.

GetOffYourGas said:

Yes, but the US is NOT the Leaf's main market. Not by a long shot. I was talking internationally.

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Hmmm … today in Norway Model 3 sold 15x Leaf.


https://twitter.com/alex_avoigt/status/1108123786593878017

DougWantsALeaf said:

Others, will please post your high GID settings.

Click to expand...

GID (energy) = K x kWhr = K x V (battery voltage) x Ahr / 10^3, where K is a Leaf assumed constant defined by those
that basically decoded the data on the CAN bus accessing the Leaf's BMS

Why not simplify the discussion by using a typical/relatable battery parameter? Since V for the Leaf's battery is essentially
a constant also over the Leaf's usable range, then the simple and key Leaf battery parameter to monitor is Ahrs of the battery.
Remember, most all batteries' capacities once the voltage is assumed, are rated in Ahrs. For one's typical ICEV battery,
the 12 volt lead acid battery's capacity is measured in Ahrs. Why use/monitor a non-standard/unique battery parameter when
discussing the Leaf's battery when other BEVs, e.g. Bolt/Tesla, use the standard terminology? Using the term GIDs doesn't
really lend any more useful info when discussing the Leaf's battery, and probably confuses those new to the Leaf.

lorenfb said:

Since V for the Leaf's battery is essentially a constant also over the Leaf's usable range

Click to expand...

I don't agree with this statement and I always thought that GID's were created to take into account just this fact. The capacity of the battery can't be calculated by just multiplying the voltage at 'full' times the Ah at 'full' since the voltage will drop as the Ah are used. It takes a bit of calculus to measure the area of the discharge VA curve to find the true battery capacity.

cwerdna said:

In a Nissan marketing email that I received today titled "(my first name ) the all-new 2019 Nissan LEAF PLUS is coming soon". they mentioned "up to 226 miles of range1"

For the footnote, they said

1. Targeted EPA range for Nissan LEAF S PLUS only. Actual range will vary with trim levels, options and driving conditions. See Customer Disclosure Form for details.

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This seems to lend credence to higher trims possibly having a lower EPA range rating.

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Hope this isn't a repost but https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=41276&id=41277 has the EPA range rating numbers.

I haven't physically seen the Monroney sticker for any Plus Leafs since I've not seen one at a dealer or auto show yet.

No trim level specified (so by process of elimination would be S) https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=41276&id=41277 says 226 miles. SV and SL are 215 miles.

goldbrick said:

lorenfb said:

Since V for the Leaf's battery is essentially a constant also over the Leaf's usable range

Click to expand...

The capacity of the battery can't be calculated by just multiplying the voltage at 'full' times the Ah at 'full' since the voltage will drop as the Ah are used. It takes a bit of calculus to measure the area of the discharge VA curve to find the true battery capacity.

Click to expand...

Right, if you're "into" measuring every microvolt change of each cell at every point in time. And "it takes a bit of calculus
to measure the area", oh please! How much measurement precision is really necessary for the average Leaf owner,
especially given the battery degradation of the Leaf over time? Remember, the battery's voltage doesn't change by
more than 5-10% over the usable range. When driving my Leaf, I use a simple calculation of about 2 miles/Ahr, where the
minimum usable Ahr is about 15-20 Ahrs, to determine my realistic remaining range. 

As the weight difference between S and SV is only about 35 pounds (another 35 for SL) is the efficiency difference the wheel size? What else would be impacting? Are the tires different?

lorenfb said:

DougWantsALeaf said:

That will feel like a full 3x range assuming the efficiency gains balance the additional weight of the car.

Click to expand...

What efficiency gains were made with the e-Plus?

Click to expand...

You haven't answered this question.

DougWantsALeaf said:

As the weight difference between S and SV is only about 35 pounds (another 35 for SL) is the efficiency difference the wheel size? What else would be impacting? Are the tires different?

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My bet is on odometer error from 16” vs 17” wheel packages. The simple math points to this... 10 mile difference on roughly a 200 mile basis is the 5% error so commonly found with 16” rims.

rogersleaf said:

DougWantsALeaf said:

As the weight difference between S and SV is only about 35 pounds (another 35 for SL) is the efficiency difference the wheel size? What else would be impacting? Are the tires different?

Click to expand...

My bet is on odometer error from 16” vs 17” wheel packages. The simple math points to this... 10 mile difference on roughly a 200 mile basis is the 5% error so commonly found with 16” rims.

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EPA uses the odometer? Wow, I am not really sure I am on board with that...

Besides, the actual diameter of both tire and wheel sets are quite close.

I have a more basic range question. Why is it that a 60 KWh Leaf has significantly less EPA range than a 60 KWh Chevy Bolt? Logic would be that Leaf should out range a Bolt simply by lower drag coefficient and greater efficiencies from a heat pump.

rogersleaf said:

I have a more basic range question. Why is it that a 60 KWh Leaf has significantly less EPA range than a 60 KWh Chevy Bolt? Logic would be that Leaf should out range a Bolt simply by lower drag coefficient and greater efficiencies from a heat pump.

Click to expand...

Bolt is smaller, lighter, cheaper.

Lorenfb


Between the 20-7 and 2018 model years with the remake, the Leaf had received some small efficiency improvements(inverter,suspension,small aero changes,etc..) My comparison wasn’t the 2018 leaf to 2019+ leaf it was a 2013 leaf vs 2019+ leaf.

The build date for my leaf is scheduled for May, so will report in a few months, once I get the car on stable 55mph efficiency as I can get it recorded.

But between 2013 and 2019 it is close to 500 pounds, so a lot to overcome mass wise.

lorenfb said:

Remember, the battery's voltage doesn't change by
more than 5-10% over the usable range. When driving my Leaf, I use a simple calculation of about 2 miles/Ahr, where the
minimum usable Ahr is about 15-20 Ahrs, to determine my realistic remaining range. 

Click to expand...

I'd say it's closer to 20% - see here https://pushevs.com/2018/01/29/2018-nissan-leaf-battery-real-specs/

But any way that works for you to calculate your range is fine with me. How fast you're driving, whether or not there is head wind, etc will obviously make a huge difference but to calculate the capacity of the battery it's not as simple as just multiplying a single voltage value by usable Ahr.

lorenfb said:

goldbrick said:

lorenfb said:

Since V for the Leaf's battery is essentially a constant also over the Leaf's usable range

Click to expand...

The capacity of the battery can't be calculated by just multiplying the voltage at 'full' times the Ah at 'full' since the voltage will drop as the Ah are used. It takes a bit of calculus to measure the area of the discharge VA curve to find the true battery capacity.

Click to expand...

Right, if you're "into" measuring every microvolt change of each cell at every point in time. And "it takes a bit of calculus
to measure the area", oh please! How much measurement precision is really necessary for the average Leaf owner,
especially given the battery degradation of the Leaf over time? Remember, the battery's voltage doesn't change by
more than 5-10% over the usable range.  

Click to expand...

I agree.
I use 360 Volts * Ahr. Accuracy within a couple percent is fine for my purposes.

I think manufacturers use 360 Volts as "nominal" of Li-x batteries. I don't understand what nominal means, but as an average voltage over the operating range it would make sense.