cwerdna
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:51 am

Wasn't sure if this should go here...

Reminder for anyone considering a new Volt:
cwerdna wrote: tax credit going to $3750 on April 1, 2019 then $1875 on Oct 1 and 0 beginning April 1, 2020. Toyota and Honda have a long way to go before their tax credit amounts go down.
It is still $7500 thru end of March 2019. Better jump on it this weekend if you want to buy one!

I also posted some speculation at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 74#p552774 as to a contributing factor of why EV/PHEVs sales are low: a misunderstanding of the Federal tax credit on EVs/PHEVs.

It is a real shame that a bunch of improvements went into the '19 Volt (https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/0 ... -volt.html), esp. the 7.2 kW OBC available as an option. It's pretty lame that the OBCs on Volt before it were only 3.3 then 3.6 kW.

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LeftieBiker
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:17 am

It is a real shame that a bunch of improvements went into the '19 Volt
Or maybe the shame is that they stopped making it...? ;)
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cwerdna
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:18 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
It is a real shame that a bunch of improvements went into the '19 Volt
Or maybe the shame is that they stopped making it...? ;)
Exactly. :(

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:30 pm

cwerdna wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:
It is a real shame that a bunch of improvements went into the '19 Volt
Or maybe the shame is that they stopped making it...? ;)
Exactly. :(
Or that they didn't make the vehicle people had been asking for. There's plenty of room between the Crosstrek and the Outlander for a Voltec AWD PHCUV.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:18 pm

There's plenty of room between the Crosstrek and the Outlander for a Voltec AWD PHCUV.
The Equinox even looks like a bigger Bolt.
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RegGuheert
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:55 pm

Since Norway is way out front in terms of plug-in penetration rates, perhaps it gives a glimpse of what to expect elsewhere in the future. InsideEVs reports on the impact in March of Tesla Model 3 deliveries, but it is clear from their graph where things were headed much earlier (BEVs: Yellow, PHEVs: Light Blue):

Image

While there was a spike in May of 2018, PHEVs started their decline in market share about a year and a half ago in October 2017. That is the point at which the PHEV market share came up to the level where it met the diesel car market share (on its way down) and it has followed the diesel market down from there. It's a curious result, to be sure.
RegGuheert
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GRA
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:46 pm

I suspect it's driven mainly by differences in incentives and other perks (free parking etc.). I'm not sure what the current ones are, but that, along with more models on offer, seem to be the main reasons why BEVs were heavily preferred over PHEVs in Norway back a few years until PHEV sales surged with a change in rules (the Outlander has led PHEV sales there by a wide margin):
Sales of plug-in hybrids have had a much smaller market penetration than pure electric car sales. Plug-in hybrids are not eligible for the same tax exemptions and other government incentives enacted for electric cars. Because the Norwegian tax system levies higher taxes to heavier vehicles, plug-in hybrids are more expensive than equivalent gasoline and diesel-powered cars due to the extra weight of the battery pack and its additional electric components.[27] Beginning on 1 July 2013, the existing weight deduction for conventional hybrids and plug-in hybrids of 10% was increased to 15% for PHEVs.[28] The weight deduction was increased to 26% effective since January 2015.[55] This fiscal incentive combined with a broader range of models available in the market resulted in record sales of plug-in hybrids in 2015, with almost 8,000 new units registered, up from about 1,700 in 2014. The plug-in hybrid market share rose to 5.2%, up from just over 1% in 2014,[56] and from 4.2% in September 2015 to 13.9% in September 2016.[3][57]. . . .

For the 2017 National Budget, the Government proposed to extend the VAT exemption for zero-emission vehicles until 2020. It also put forward a national rule to keep a maximum tax rate of zero-emission vehicles equal to half the value charged to conventional cars. The budget proposal also included an adjustment to exempt plug-in hybrids from the higher taxes levied to heavier vehicles, and instead, to charge taxes based on their fuel economy under the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC). Until 2016, all plug-in hybrids had a weight allowance of 26% regardless of their all-electric range or fuel efficiency.[74][75]. . . .

Plug-in hybrid segment growth to the expense of pure electrics[edit]

Registration of new and used imports by type of plug-in electric vehicle between 2013 and 2018.[2][3][4][5][6]

The plug-in hybrid segment outsold all-electric cars for the first time ever in the month of April 2016.[183] Registrations of new passenger plug-in vehicles during the first half of 2016 totaled 11,744 all-electric cars and 10,338 plug-in hybrids, with the all-electric car segment reaching a market share of 15.1%, down from 18.4% in the same period in 2015, while the plug-in hybrid segment reached a record 13.3%, up from 4.5% in 2015.[184] These sales results for the first half of 2016 revealed a new trend in the Norwegian plug-in electric market. After years of spectacular growth, the market share of all-electric cars suffered a decline over the previous year, while the plug-in hybrid segment experienced significant growth.[57][71][184] In terms of sales volume during the first half of 2016, for the first time plug-in hybrid registrations (10,338) were very close to all-electrics (11,744).[184] Accounting for registrations during the first three quarters of 2016, plug-in hybrids grew nearly three-fold from the same period in 2016.[57][71][167]

According to the Norwegian Electric Vehicle Association this new trend is the result of uncertainty created by the government about the future incentives for zero-emission vehicles.[184] Also, buyers have more models to choose from, as the number of plug-in hybrid cars available in the market has increased significantly, as of August 2016, there were 19 plug-in hybrid models in the market and 15 all-electric cars.[59] Accounting for cumulative registrations between January and July 2016, four plug-in hybrids were listed among the top 10 selling plug-in electric cars, with a plug-in hybrid ranking for the first time ever in first place. As the trend of stronger plug-in hybrid sales continued in July 2016, the split between battery electric cars and plug-in hybrids almost reached parity, with 12,855 electric cars (51.3%) registered in the first seven months of 2016 compared to 12,203 plug-in hybrids registered in the same period (48.7%).[59] In September 2016, the Norwegian Electric Vehicle Association proposed to the government to change the rules in the 2017 budget to limit the incentives for plug-in hybrids with insufficient all-electric range and luxury models featuring an electric powertrain with a small battery with the sole purpose of increasing power output. . . .[57][74][75]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_e ... incentives

In the Netherlands, the advantage initially went the other way, and PHEV sales/leases led BEVs for that reason until their subsidies were reduced (IIRR, cars leased as company cars were the main beneficiaries).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Titanium48
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:33 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
There's plenty of room between the Crosstrek and the Outlander for a Voltec AWD PHCUV.
The Equinox even looks like a bigger Bolt.
That does seem like an excellent application for Voltec. 60 kWh batteries and expanding DCFC infrastructure have allowed small BEVs to become fully road-trip capable and elbow PHEVs like the Volt out of many of their niches, but a bigger vehicle that could be loaded with a bunch of gear and tow stuff would need 2-3 times that battery capacity for similar range. 150 kWh batteries aren't going to be affordable for a while yet and a 50 kW DCFC wouldn't exactly be fast when trying to charge one, so there is a PHEV opportunity there until batteries are cheaper and 200+ kW DCFC is everywhere.
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GRA
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:18 pm

What GM could have done 3 years ago - IEVS:
2020 Ford Escape Brings With It A Plug-In Hybrid Option
https://insideevs.com/2020-ford-escapeplug-in-hybrid/
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:21 pm

What GM could have done 3 years ago - IEVS:
2020 Ford Escape Brings With It A Plug-In Hybrid Option
https://insideevs.com/2020-ford-escapeplug-in-hybrid/
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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