Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

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Oilpan4 said:
If someone can't afford to feed their kids or keep up with the electricity bill who really think these people really are wanting to spend more to get electricity from solar panels?
You are still struggling with arithmetic.
The electricity from a PV panel at home is MUCH cheaper than from the utility.

Isn't that what you keep telling us, Trumper ? That you only buy the least expensive out of pocket option, externalized costs be damned ?

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Or did you mean that people like you want the cheapest grid electricity, externalized costs be damned ? I have already told you to look at a PNM bill to get a clue.

Another hint for you, Trumper: read the PNM IRP and compare it to the NM clean energy legislation you are fear mongering about. The IRP pre-dates the NM legislation by at least a year and prioritizes least cost fuels.
 
Oilpan4 said:
Nope, you just call everything you don't agree with bs even after you are proven completely wrong. You really should be working in politics.

Save yourself the trouble of trying to prove him wrong and just add him to your "Foe" list. It's like arguing with a rock, except rocks don't go around insulting you.
 
Over all this is probably good for me.
I plan to make like al gore and profit off this.

Can anyone show me anywhere that has gone from the normal mix of power sources like we have in the US, switched over to mostly wind and sun and had their electricity rates lowered or stay about the same?

If solar power is essentially free then there should be tons of success stories of solar replacing fossil fuels and making electricity cheaper, right?

Those who resort to name calling know they are wrong and is conformation that they are completely fos and have nothing intelligent to offer.
 
Oilpan4 said:
Can anyone show me anywhere that has gone from the normal mix of power sources like we have in the US, switched over to mostly wind and sun and had their electricity rates lowered or stay about the same?
Of course. I keep telling you to look at your PNM bill and to read the PNM IRP.
You do neither, and instead spout BS and FUD.

I tell you to learn about your NM wind resource, and in reply you quote a single day from California -- itself a refutation of your earlier BS that wind+solar only cover 8 hours of energy use a day.

---
Reference NM wind data or STFU.
Reference West Texas wind data* or STFU
Reference the PNM IRP or STFU
Reference the PNM consumer bill or STFU

*Why ? Because Eastern NM and West Texas are linked. I leave it to you to understand the ways that it matters to your ignorant thread.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Sagebrush, please omit the insults. No one has used language like that against you, AFAIK.
I give oil-y the benefit of the doubt -- that he spouts FUD from a well of ignorance rather than being an outright liar and/or a troll.

Following is one example, but no more will follow because I refuse to legitimize his rubbish with detailed responses. I will simply call out his rubbish for what it is and challenge him to back it up with data.

He has posted in this thread:
Wind and sun only work really well for about 8 hours a day.
NM has a little better wind utilization, but not drastically different. Our wind can last until 6 or 7pm most evenings.
Wind and Solar will work together well in NM until about 9pm when both go 0.

Now lets try some actual facts, backed up by references:
https://wind.willyweather.com/nm/curry-county/clovis.html
[https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy11osti/49218.pdf](https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy11osti/49218.pdf)

[http://mis.ercot.com/misapp/GetReports.do?reportTypeId=13424&reportTitle=Hourly Aggregated Wind Output&showHTMLView=&mimicKey](http://mis.ercot.com/misapp/GetReports.do?reportTypeId=13424&reportTitle=Hourly%20Aggregated%20Wind%20Output&showHTMLView=&mimicKey)

[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1asOrVS8lxvoN1wIuNwohlBmXYhT9jtLizlrdmNz2gCs/edit#gid=2105138713]

ERCOT is the Texas grid, and it reports Utility wind stats by the hour. Most of the wind is from West Texas which is geographically an extension of Eastern NM, the major wind resource of NM. Below is a graph of the wind production through 2017 aggregated and averaged for each hour of the year. The google doc above has the raw data.

uc
 
I'm definitely not suggesting that you not correct mistakes or misinformation - just that you do so in a more neutral tone. The corrections themselves are very welcome.
 
LeftieBiker said:
It would indeed be nice if there were more civil refutation and less uncivil refutation.
Seeing as how you're a moderator and are presumably responsible for enforcing the terms of service, rather than it being nice, isn't it your job to see that's the case? I report such behavior regularly, but don't see anything done about it, nor does anyone get back to me even though I request it. In the past, mods would warn and if necessary ban someone either for a period of time or permanently who regularly acted in such fashion, but now they don't. I don't know if that's because the site owners are worried that it will drive their traffic count down and thus their ad revenues or what, but I suspect as many people or more are driven away from the site because of the lack of civility enforcement as are those who are encouraged by it to post.

As you apparently fall into the same camp as I do, but you actually have the power to do something about it, why aren't you? And if you lack the power, who does have the power, and how should those of us who find this type of behavior unacceptable report it to them, since flagging messages seems to have no effect whatsoever?
 
Back on topic, does anyone have a source for NM wind generation curves? While I've had no trouble finding the names, capacities and total annual production of NM wind farms, I've been unable to find any data such as is available for California for hourly production/resources. Per Wiki, NM has enormous wind potential:
A 2010 study by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory showed that New Mexico has the potential to install up to 492,083 MW of wind power nameplate capacity, generating 1,644,970 GWh annually.[6][7] For comparison, New Mexico consumed 23,060 GWh of electricity in 2016, and 20,639 GWh in 2005.[8][9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_New_Mexico#Installed_capacity_and_wind_resources

The question is when does it blow, how much storage (or importation) would be required, and the cost of same, compared to say CSP with storage or any of the other (renewable or otherwise) options, and with externalities included for all. So, for instance, renewable electricity might be more expensive, but health care savings due to reduced pollution might offset that.
 
GRA said:
Back on topic, does anyone have a source for NM wind generation curves?
I'm interested in the wind farms near Albuquerque and have contacted them for data. No response so far.

So far as the state is concerned, as I have already said the lion's share of the state resource are in the east and southEast parts of the state. I'm confident in saying that the wind resource in the SE is very similar to W. Texas. For now it is way under-developed due to a transmission bottle-neck. PNM says that wind is as developed as it can be for now, but they plan to build more transmission capacity by 2022 and then the wind resource will be developed further. Look at the ERCOT generation data I posted above. On-shore wind+PV is an outstanding combination for fly-over country, and I know that both NM and Texas have thought about complementing California PV in a regional alliance but that will take political will the current bozos in the federal government do not have.

PNM's infrastructure plans reflect their desire to utilize their fossil and nuclear assets either for as long as they can or until contracts expire. Neither are the cheapest for the consumer or the community even before externalized costs are considered, but are the most profitable for PNM.
 
GRA said:
IIRR they were originally claiming they could ultimately move 20GW.
The website says 750 MW planned in 2016 but they are now talking about a 200 MW pipe-let.

I don't think there is much doubt that large scale regional sharing is key to replacing fossils with clean energy.
Unfortunately, a forward thinking government is needed.
 
SageBrush said:
Oilpan4 said:
Can anyone show me anywhere that has gone from the normal mix of power sources like we have in the US, switched over to mostly wind and sun and had their electricity rates lowered or stay about the same?
Of course. I keep telling you to look at your PNM bill and to read the PNM IRP.
You do neither, and instead spout BS and FUD.

I tell you to learn about your NM wind resource, and in reply you quote a single day from California -- itself a refutation of your earlier BS that wind+solar only cover 8 hours of energy use a day.

---
Reference NM wind data or STFU.
Reference West Texas wind data* or STFU
Reference the PNM IRP or STFU
Reference the PNM consumer bill or STFU

*Why ? Because Eastern NM and West Texas are linked. I leave it to you to understand the ways that it matters to your ignorant thread.
Do you know how I can pull the trend data off their closed scata system with out working there at the wind farm?
Because that's what I was using.
I already know know NM and pan handle of Texas are on the same power grid. Remember I have actually been formally educated on the power grid here. I know where it is, where it goes, it's weaknesses, what and how most of the substation are linked.

You linking weather reports to "prove me wrong" is cute. Looks like you are grabbing for anything to try to make your point, what ever that is supposed to be.
The wind for cast you linked for April 17 is a typical day for this part of newmexico, the wind starts off easy in the morning, builds most of the day then dies off in the evening. This is exactly what I have been saying the wind does. So thanks for providing me right.
 
According to AP NM struggles to produce 20% of electricity with renewables. Our utility announced they will be raising rates to add solar capacity.
https://www.apnews.com/d4716f842aba4c8da0417fe2cf32ed41

I guess 1 in 4 people struggling to keep up with their electricity bill isn't enough.
 
GRA said:
Tres Amigas http://www.tresamigasllc.com/ was supposed to provide an interconnect for all three regional grids in 2016, but is running very late and has been downsized if not completely ended:
Tres Amigas truncates transmission tie
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/tres-amigas-truncates-transmission-tie/436455/

I can't find any news about it after 2017. IIRR they were originally claiming they could ultimately move 20GW.

We don't need tresamigas.
The existing high voltage lines were upgraded to handle all the wind power coming on line.
From what I heard upgrading the existing high voltage AC lines only cost tens of millions of dollars. And tresamigas wanted 200 million for the small version, over a billion for the full version? No thank.
The texas and south west grid don't really need to be linked. This part of the south west grid just needed to be able to get all its wind power further west.
There really isn't any point in doing TA without texas. Once texas builds a huge surplus of wind power they will want to sell that surplus electricity and then TA or something will TA like be built.
I'm actually glad tresamigas isn't being built because then we would be forced to buy wind power from the texas interconnect exchange.
At least we will be forced to build our own, which is the lesser of 2 evils to me.
 
Oilpan4 said:
Do you know how I can pull the trend data off their closed scata system with out working there at the wind farm?
No, but the wind resource data itself is available. Since you refuse to reference data to back up your drivel I posted ERCOT and NM wind data (in the NREL link) in an earlier post to show just how wrong your statements are.

I posted the weather link to give you an idea how to collect data but other sources are available.

Go ahead -- look at the 2017 ERCOT wind generation graph posted in this thread. What is the range of average hourly capacity factor through the night ?
When during the 24 hour cycle is the nadir ?

This is the graph. Do you understand it ?

uc
 
I believe the strategy New Mexico is using to achieve their renewable mandate is to develop various ways to store renewable energy so it can be used when needed, not when available. You can get a glimpse at what they are doing in this website.

http://www.emnrd.state.nm.us/ECMD/RenewableEnergy/RenewableEnergyStorage.html
 
Oilpan4 said:
We don't need tresamigas.
The proposed DCHV line was never about NM per se, but a proposal to link the wind resources in West Texas and Eastern NM with the
California market.

It will happen because it makes a LOT of sense, saves money, and allows the clean energy economy to blossom. We just have to get rid of the monkeys in the White House.
 
LKK said:
I believe the strategy New Mexico is using to achieve their renewable mandate is to develop various ways to store renewable energy so it can be used when needed, not when available. You can get a glimpse at what they are doing in this website.

http://www.emnrd.state.nm.us/ECMD/RenewableEnergy/RenewableEnergyStorage.html
Sort of, but at a 1 - 4 hour time scale. Battery is too expensive by far to cover larger windows of variability. For that, regional sharing is key in addition to demand response.

It is interesting to note that overall, about half of residential energy use is in the home and half is for transport. Electric vehicles are central to high penetration of clean energy because they insert much needed demand flexibility.
 
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