Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
SageBrush said:
How is that not motivation ?
Click to expand...

Because it's invisible and doesn't seem urgent. People will not have their lives immediately and visibly affected by delaying. Even excluding those who believe (incorrectly) that AGW isn't real, most of the damage will not occur for years or decades.

It's the same reason that Nuclear is scary but Coal is fine, despite the fact that coal release more radiation (cancer!) than Nuclear. Coal's damage is invisible, delayed, and distributed. Nuclear's destruction is dramatic and sudden.
 
smkettner said:
SageBrush said:
smkettner said:
My 5 year payback came and went 2 years ago.
Click to expand...
You must be feeling the stress of of only having some 23 years left of free electricity :mrgreen:
Click to expand...
Never read a solar panel wearing out. Just going to fade away slowly. s/b at 80% capacity in 30 years. I may not even live that long. As better panels are available I think many will get replaced before the warranty is run out. Efficiency continues to climb, cost continues to drop.
Click to expand...
You slight me :ugeek:
I averaged 35 years of declining production to come up with 30 years of like new production.
 
The solar panels will last until they get destroyed by a wind storm, taken out by hail, the mounting system rots, ect.
That's why I don't mind buying panels that are 5 years old.

I'm very glad I waited.
I remember not that long ago used solar panels at a dollar per watt were a great deal.
Now most new panels are around $1 per watt.

If I look back to 2010 it looks like I could have paid between $5 and $7 per watt on a grid tied roof top install.
So a 5kw system would have cost me between $25,000 and $35,000.
I did not have $25,000+ just laying around in 2010 so I would have to finance. Intrest rates were not that good in 2010, unless you are the bank.

So if I would have financed a 5kw system for 25,000 for 30 years at 7% as part of a home refinance/loan the payment for the solar panels would make up $166 of the total home refinance payment.
That would make the total cost of the system about 49,500 by the time the loan is paid off.
I would be replacing a $100 to $120 power bill by being locked into a $166 payment for 30 years. That would only cover most of the power bill, I would still have the surcharge and maybe a few hundred kwh to pay for.
No thanks.
Looking back I'm very, very glad I didn't do it then. I would have to be an idiot to pay $50,000 for a 5kw system.

Nope I'm good doing it my way. $5,000 for a 5kw system paid in cash, the rig will pay for its self in less than 5 years.
 
Well I got a pallet (25) of 295w poly panels shipped for $1,875. That should get me started.
Last week the shipping quote was $300. Today it ended up being $250, I'll take it.
The whole pallet should weigh about 1,700lb so the leaf can tow it.
 
SageBrush said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
around me will choose A, because it's easier and there is no motivation.
Click to expand...
Do you breathe ?
Eat ?
Drink water ?
Want health for yourself and your children ?

That is what reduced pollution means. How is that not motivation ?
Click to expand...
What I think is irrelevant, what matters is what everyone else thinks... and frankly they just aren't thinking about it. They have the electric bill on autopay and it isn't even on their radar. The air and water seem fine, there is food in the grocery store, and there are bigger problems in people's lives to worry about over which they do have control.

Does Apple or Google have their music library for the streaming service I subscribe to backed up? I assume they do but I'm paying them to provide a service and it's their job to worry about all that. Same thing for the power company. Let them figure out the solutions to the environmental problems. They are the key, whatever I do isn't going to move the needle.

In a world where people don't want to bother keeping track of some MP3 files and making playlists how can we possibly expect them to start wanting to own, understand and maintain their own power generation infrastructure? What kind of solar panels are best? Which way should they be pointed? What if the roof needs repairs? How long will the inverter last? What does that blinking fault light mean? I spent $10k on this thing and my bill only went down $20. The guy that installed the system is gone, now I need service and the new guy is telling me something else. This stuff is great for enthusiasts but meanwhile I need to get the kid to daycare and get to work.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Same thing for the power company. Let them figure out the solutions to the environmental problems. They are the key, whatever I do isn't going to move the needle.
Click to expand...
So much for personal responsibility.
I hope you take the same position when it comes time to vote.
 
SageBrush said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
Same thing for the power company. Let them figure out the solutions to the environmental problems. They are the key, whatever I do isn't going to move the needle.
Click to expand...
So much for personal responsibility.
I hope you take the same position when it comes time to vote.
Click to expand...
That's not how any of this works.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
SageBrush said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
Same thing for the power company. Let them figure out the solutions to the environmental problems. They are the key, whatever I do isn't going to move the needle.
Click to expand...
So much for personal responsibility.
I hope you take the same position when it comes time to vote.
Click to expand...
That's not how any of this works.
Click to expand...
Do tell.
 
Don't wait for change. Make it happen.

Problem is it seems like people fall into to 2 categories, they are unwilling to change or want some one to it for them.
 
Oilpan4 said:
Problem is it seems like people fall into to 2 categories, they are unwilling to change or want some one to it for them.
Click to expand...

There's a third category, I call them "climate change defeatists", how I categorize myself... those who have become increasingly disillusioned that any good done by making suboptimal decisions in their own situation will be totally obliterated by the other 99.99% doing whatever makes the most sense for them at the time. (OT come to find out all that stuff I've been dutifully putting in recycle all these years has mostly been going to the landfill)

That is why I feel that technology is the only hope. When it's easier/cheaper/better to do something other than burn stuff to attain life's daily wants and needs that's what people will do, here and around the world. As for solar, in case you hadn't noticed people aren't burning anything to run their AC, they're just using electricity as a service. Hence the importance of the public utilities as the best place to curtail the emissions. Same reason people rob banks, because that's where the money is.

I probably know 100 times more than the average person about the processes that go on behind bringing that electricity to someone's house and I'm just a schmuck. Most people don't know, aren't interested, or incapable of understanding anything about it. They flip a switch on the thermostat and the house cools down - hell these days they don't even want to flip a switch, let nest figure it out. Bill on autopay, where do you want to go for dinner tonight?

It reminds me of a great line in Amadeus when Salieri says to Mozart "you make too many demands of the royal ear".
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
There's a third category, I call them "climate change defeatists"
Click to expand...

It's not defeatism. It's basic economic and game theory. The term is "tragedy of the commons".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

The answer is basic:
1) When market factors (low barrier to entry, etc) lead to competition and do not exploit shared resources, you do NOT regulate and you leave the market alone.
2) When market factors either lead to either oligopoly or monopoly, or they lead to exploitation of shared resources, you MUST regulate to protect everyone's best interests.

I say this as a moderate libertarian. You must regulate to protect consumers from monopolies and you must regulate to protect shared resources. If you don't, individuals making good choices will still result in the exploitation of consumers or shared resources, if it's economically favorable to do so.

In this case, the most obvious solution would be a carbon tax, or a reasonable proxy. Don't outlaw specific products (like the incandescent ban or air travel), just tax carbon (or a reasonable proxy). The market will sort out the best solution.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Oilpan4 said:
Problem is it seems like people fall into to 2 categories, they are unwilling to change or want some one to it for them.
Click to expand...

There's a third category, I call them "climate change defeatists", how I categorize myself... those who have become increasingly disillusioned that any good done by making suboptimal decisions in their own situation will be totally obliterated by the other 99.99% doing whatever makes the most sense for them at the time. (OT come to find out all that stuff I've been dutifully putting in recycle all these years has mostly been going to the landfill)

That is why I feel that technology is the only hope. When it's easier/cheaper/better to do something other than burn stuff to attain life's daily wants and needs that's what people will do, here and around the world. As for solar, in case you hadn't noticed people aren't burning anything to run their AC, they're just using electricity as a service. Hence the importance of the public utilities as the best place to curtail the emissions. Same reason people rob banks, because that's where the money is.

I probably know 100 times more than the average person about the processes that go on behind bringing that electricity to someone's house and I'm just a schmuck. Most people don't know, aren't interested, or incapable of understanding anything about it. They flip a switch on the thermostat and the house cools down - hell these days they don't even want to flip a switch, let nest figure it out. Bill on autopay, where do you want to go for dinner tonight?

It reminds me of a great line in Amadeus when Salieri says to Mozart "you make too many demands of the royal ear".
Click to expand...

Yeah seems we have a lot of people who have have never been to a real power plant, seen a large boiler in person or been inside a wind turbine but they know the best way to generate electricity.

I like to go pay my bill in person with cash because I'm weird like that. I also like to look at the board to see what kind of maintenance they have planned and look at the HMI to see how much power is flowing where.

It's perfectly rational to feel defeated. China has 1,100Gw of coal capacity and plans to build about an additional 250Gw with in the next several years according to a late 2018 ipcc article I was reading.
The United states might close 50Gw worth of coal power plants during that time (that's my own speculation it may be more than that).
 
Lothsahn said:
In this case, the most obvious solution would be a carbon tax, or a reasonable proxy. Don't outlaw specific products (like the incandescent ban or air travel), just tax carbon (or a reasonable proxy). The market will sort out the best solution.
Click to expand...
Why tax carbon ? The more basic issue here is that externalities distort the pricing.
All I hear are excuses why it is someone else's responsibility.

Question to the Trumpers around here: do you favor paying for the pollution you cause ?
 
SageBrush said:
Why tax carbon ? The more basic issue here is that externalities distort the pricing.
All I hear are excuses why it is someone else's responsibility.

Question to the Trumpers around here: do you favor paying for the pollution you cause ?
Click to expand...

There are externalities all over our economy, oil, gas, solar, and electric cars. Personally, I'd favor eliminating most of those and just creating a carbon tax. But even if we leave those in place, a carbon tax would provide a significant benefit--reducing carbon emissions.

Why tax carbon? Because it's the thing that's doing harm. I'd also tax other products that cause AGW, such as some freons.

There are tons of excuses. The issue is complex, and we have trouble controlling other countries. But I think a domestic tax on CO2 plus an import duty based on CO2 production would go a long way. And let's be realistic, America is historically the primary producer of CO2.

I can't say I'd call myself a Trumper, but yes, I favor paying for the pollution I cause. The interesting part is most Americans do, as long as everyone else has to as well.
 
Lothsahn said:
The interesting part is most Americans do, as long as everyone else has to as well.
Click to expand...
That must be why Trumpers favor a carbon tax.

Oh wait .. never mind.
 
Oilpan4 said:
Tax CO2 here, china still takes the world to 550ppm and beyond.
Click to expand...

Sad for China if that happens.

China has a lot of their best farmland close to sea level. Flooding that by melting the ice sheets on Greenland and Antarctica wouldn't be in China's best interest. Yes, the USA would lose some of Florida, but the USA has a lot of good farmland at high enough altitudes so that it would never flood.

China would also start to lose lots of otherwise habitable land to lethal dewpoint/temperatures before the USA would.
 

Similar threads

G
Using a Leaf Battery and Drive Train to power machinery (as low cost as possible)
Replies
0
Views
204
galstaf
G
B
Is it me or were those people in Chicago idiots?
Replies
2
Views
250
Bombastinator2
B
C
A thread for people happy with their Leaf
2 3 4
Replies
79
Views
5K
denwood
D
N
I have some questions
Replies
1
Views
139
bojoho
B
R
Guidelines for replacement battery SOH
Replies
16
Views
2K
murrayc
M

Latest posts

Back
Top