Oilpan4
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Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:11 am

Most people don't want to pay a tax to fix global warming, even when they believe man is the cause.
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SageBrush
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Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:06 am

Oilpan4 wrote:Most people don't want to pay a tax to fix global warming, even when they believe man is the cause.
Speak for yourself, or for Trumpers, or for Republicans. For other groups provide proof.

Second, it is not a tax.
It is a willingness to sometimes pay more now to reduce the (delayed to one degree or another) harmful effects of pollution and carbon.
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:34 am

Oilpan4 wrote:Most people don't want to pay a tax to fix global warming, even when they believe man is the cause.
^This^

They'll collect more taxes and it won't fix anything. It will be like the department of education, creating new problems and solving nothing. When it doesn't work the answer proposed will be to throw even more at it in ever increasing sums, all of which does nothing but line the pockets of special interests.
LTL
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Oilpan4
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Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:38 am

SageBrush wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote:Most people don't want to pay a tax to fix global warming, even when they believe man is the cause.
Speak for yourself, or for Trumpers, or for Republicans. For other groups provide proof.

Second, it is not a tax.
It is a willingness to sometimes pay more now to reduce the (delayed to one degree or another) harmful effects of pollution and carbon.
I already did provide proof you just ignore anything you don't agree with.
Oilpan4 wrote:"The AP found Americans don’t want to pay very much to fight climate change. A $1 per month fee was favored by 57 percent of those surveyed. However, if the monthly charge increased to $10 a month, just 28 percent would be supportive, while 68 opposed".

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna962001
Call it what you want, Fee, tax, state sanctioned theft, turns out the majority of voters don't want to pay $10 per month or more to fix global warming.
Is NBC an AP too conservative for you?
Last edited by Oilpan4 on Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
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Oilpan4
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Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:42 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote:Most people don't want to pay a tax to fix global warming, even when they believe man is the cause.
^This^

They'll collect more taxes and it won't fix anything. It will be like the department of education, creating new problems and solving nothing. When it doesn't work the answer proposed will be to throw even more at it in ever increasing sums, all of which does nothing but line the pockets of special interests.
Of course that's what's going to happen.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
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WetEV
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Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:57 am

Lothsahn wrote:I bet you could get a significant minority of Republicans to buy into a carbon tax if it came with an income tax cut.
Perhaps. Probably not, however.

The Democrats will notice that the income tax cut helps mostly upper income people, and the carbon tax hurts mostly lower income people. They will be at conflicted by this. So if this effort fails, like the Washington carbon tax, getting the majority support of the Democrats and almost no support from Republicans, then the loss can be blamed on the Democrats.
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SageBrush
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Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:07 am

Oilpan4 wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote:Most people don't want to pay a tax to fix global warming, even when they believe man is the cause.
^This^

They'll collect more taxes and it won't fix anything. It will be like the department of education, creating new problems and solving nothing. When it doesn't work the answer proposed will be to throw even more at it in ever increasing sums, all of which does nothing but line the pockets of special interests.
Of course that's what's going to happen.
BS.

There are infinite ways to reduce carbon pollution without taxation. You are just making excuses. Look at your own posts -- you tell us that your burn coal in your home. You posted a nonsensical alarmist thread that electric rates in NM are going to drastically rise due to carbon regulation.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
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Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:11 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote:Most people don't want to pay a tax to fix global warming, even when they believe man is the cause.
^This^

They'll collect more taxes and it won't fix anything. It will be like the department of education, creating new problems and solving nothing. When it doesn't work the answer proposed will be to throw even more at it in ever increasing sums, all of which does nothing but line the pockets of special interests.
The point to collecting a tax isn't always just the income. It is to convince people to do less of the thing taxed as the thing taxed costs them directly more. The value of the tax can be positive even if the money is spend on gold toilets.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/1 ... /1243.full
The tragedy of the commons develops in this way. Picture a pasture open to all. It is to be expected that each herdsman will try to keep as many cattle as possible on the commons. Such an arrangement may work reasonably satisfactorily for centuries because tribal wars, poaching, and disease keep the numbers of both man and beast well below the carrying capacity of the land. Finally, however, comes the day of reckoning, that is, the day when the long-desired goal of social stability becomes a reality. At this point, the inherent logic of the commons remorselessly generates tragedy.

As a rational being, each herdsman seeks to maximize his gain. Explicitly or implicitly, more or less consciously, he asks, "What is the utility to me of adding one more animal to my herd?" This utility has one negative and one positive component.

1) The positive component is a function of the increment of one animal. Since the herdsman receives all the proceeds from the sale of the additional animal, the positive utility is nearly +1.

2) The negative component is a function of the additional overgrazing created by one more animal. Since, however, the effects of overgrazing are shared by all the herdsmen, the negative utility for any particular decision-making herdsman is only a fraction of –1.

Adding together the component partial utilities, the rational herdsman concludes that the only sensible course for him to pursue is to add another animal to his herd. And another; and another... But this is the conclusion reached by each and every rational herdsman sharing a commons. Therein is the tragedy. Each man is locked into a system that compels him to increase his herd without limit--in a world that is limited. Ruin is the destination toward which all men rush, each pursuing his own best interest in a society that believes in the freedom of the commons. Freedom in a commons brings ruin to all.
Bold is mine.
WetEV
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SageBrush
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Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:12 am

SageBrush wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote: ^This^

They'll collect more taxes and it won't fix anything. It will be like the department of education, creating new problems and solving nothing. When it doesn't work the answer proposed will be to throw even more at it in ever increasing sums, all of which does nothing but line the pockets of special interests.
Of course that's what's going to happen.
BS.

There are infinite ways to reduce carbon pollution without taxation. You are just making excuses. Look at your own posts -- you tell us that your burn coal in your home. You posted a nonsensical alarmist thread that electric rates in NM are going to drastically rise due to carbon regulation.
Summary:
You do not curb carbon pollution yourself
You oppose carbon pollution limits
You want others to pay for your carbon pollution

Calling it 'taxes' is just dog whistle Repuke propaganda.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 955
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:45 am

SageBrush wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote: ^This^

They'll collect more taxes and it won't fix anything. It will be like the department of education, creating new problems and solving nothing. When it doesn't work the answer proposed will be to throw even more at it in ever increasing sums, all of which does nothing but line the pockets of special interests.
Of course that's what's going to happen.
BS.

There are infinite ways to reduce carbon pollution without taxation. You are just making excuses. Look at your own posts -- you tell us that your burn coal in your home. You posted a nonsensical alarmist thread that electric rates in NM are going to drastically rise due to carbon regulation.
So you got nothing but ignore the facts and insult people as usual.

I'm like most of the people in that survey.
Believe in climate change and don't believe in paying for it for.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

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