Tesla's autopilot, on the road

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Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Hopefully one of these days, getting home drunk will no longer be a criminal offense with dire consequences.

Taxi has always worked. Yellow cab, Uber, etc.

Once cars get as smart as horses, then the drunk can get into the passenger seat and the car will be smart enough to drive home.
 
WetEV said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Hopefully one of these days, getting home drunk will no longer be a criminal offense with dire consequences.

Taxi has always worked. Yellow cab, Uber, etc.

Once cars get as smart as horses, then the drunk can get into the passenger seat and the car will be smart enough to drive home.

well a horse will not keep you from getting the DUI. https://duiwise.com/dui-faq/can-you-get-a-dui-dwi-on-a-horse/

And even if the car were level 4 capable, operating under the influence should still be an offense since the driver is still responsible for taking control at some point. Level 5 where the operator has no responsibility for taking control it can be argued that you could get in under the influence. Certainly in the case of the horse, it is the operators responsibility for the horses safety when taking it out on public streets, and so DUI is appropriate.
 
palmermd said:
well a horse will not keep you from getting the DUI.

Depends on which state, of course.

palmermd said:
And even if the car were level 4 capable, operating under the influence should still be an offense since the driver is still responsible for taking control at some point. Level 5 where the operator has no responsibility for taking control it can be argued that you could get in under the influence. Certainly in the case of the horse, it is the operators responsibility for the horses safety when taking it out on public streets, and so DUI is appropriate.

Is a horse level 5 capable? Perhaps not.
 
X-posted from the Tesla Corporate Outlook topic, about another fatal Florida crash that happened last week:
The Friday crash sounds identical to Joshua Brown's:
“Vehicle 1 (V-1) was a tractor/trailer combination vehicle traveling eastbound on the driveway access to 14095 SR 7 (Pero Farms) preparing to turn left onto SR 7. Vehicle 2 (V-2) was traveling southbound on SR 7 within the outside lane approaching Pero Farms. After V-1 came to a brief stop at a stop sign, V-1 entered the southbound lanes of SR 7 pulling into the path of V-2. V-2 struck the driver side of V-1’s trailer resulting in the roof being sheared off as it passed underneath the trailer. V-2 continued southbound and came to a final rest approx 3/10th of a mile south of the collision. The driver of V-2 was pronounced deceased on scene.”
.
There are aerial photos of the truck and car from a distance here: https://cdllife.com/2019/roof-sheared-off-of-tesla-in-fatal-crash-with-turning-semi-truck/

We'll see if this was an A/P-caused crash; it seems likely. BTW, it's been about a year since the Huang fatal A/P crash into a gore barrier, so we should be getting the NTSB's final report on that pretty soon.
 
I wonder if much will be learned from this event on April 19th: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-host-autonomy-investor-day-070457448.html.
 
I have FSD with firmware 2019.8.4 currently and I find it to be surprisingly good at self-driving and making "intelligent" decisions. I would never entirely depend on it and always monitor it rigorously, but it is interesting how much it has improved in just the last few software updates... And it saved me from a deer a few nights ago when it detected it coming from the side beyond my sight line, and braked the car heavily so the deer passed safely in front of me... That alone was worth the price of admission.
 
TomT said:
I would never entirely depend on it and always monitor it rigorously

An intelligent and wise view, but given some of the Tesla accidents that isn't always the case for some drivers.
 
TomT said:
And it saved me from a deer a few nights ago when it detected it coming from the side beyond my sight line, and braked the car heavily so the deer passed safely in front of me... That alone was worth the price of admission.
Wow! I have lost friends to deer and many others have been seriously injured by them. That really IS worth the price of admission!
 
RegGuheert said:
TomT said:
And it saved me from a deer a few nights ago when it detected it coming from the side beyond my sight line, and braked the car heavily so the deer passed safely in front of me... That alone was worth the price of admission.
Wow! I have lost friends to deer and many others have been seriously injured by them. That really IS worth the price of admission!
The question being was that due to sensors/systems that are only available with the FSB suite while the car's on A/P, or would AEB and/or other sensors have worked as well with Tom driving? Prevention of such accidents shouldn't require that the car drive itself.
 
Elon:
“Please note that the price of the Tesla Full Self-Driving option will increase substantially over time”

“Starting May 1”
He should have added:
Or decrease. Or stay the same. Or go up one day/week/month/quarter and down the next or vice versa, depending on sales, how desperate we are for cash, and/or my level of self-medication and whether my access to Twitter is blocked.
 
IEVS:
Tesla Full Self-Driving: First "The Smear" Then The "Slow Walk"
https://insideevs.com/news/346884/tesla-full-self-driving-future/

Should we be concerned about the near-term future of Tesla's Full Self-Driving Tech?

It was a relatively short comment in Tesla's ground-breaking presentation on full self-driving (FSD) capabilities for its fleet of Model 3, Model S, Model X vehicles. During the viral FSD presentation, Elon Musk stated this:

“There are three steps to full self-driving capability: [Developing] a ‘feature complete’ FSD system; [Ensuring] a feature complete FSD system to the degree that the person in the car does not have to pay attention to driving, and [Finalizing] a feature complete FSD system at a reliability level where we [Tesla] convince regulators that is true.”
It's high time that they start to meet those sort of safety/reliability challenges, BEFORE putting the car in the hands of the public.
 
GRA said:
IEVS:
Tesla Full Self-Driving: First "The Smear" Then The "Slow Walk"
https://insideevs.com/news/346884/tesla-full-self-driving-future/

Should we be concerned about the near-term future of Tesla's Full Self-Driving Tech?

It was a relatively short comment in Tesla's ground-breaking presentation on full self-driving (FSD) capabilities for its fleet of Model 3, Model S, Model X vehicles. During the viral FSD presentation, Elon Musk stated this:

“There are three steps to full self-driving capability: [Developing] a ‘feature complete’ FSD system; [Ensuring] a feature complete FSD system to the degree that the person in the car does not have to pay attention to driving, and [Finalizing] a feature complete FSD system at a reliability level where we [Tesla] convince regulators that is true.”
It's high time that they start to meet those sort of safety/reliability challenges, BEFORE putting the car in the hands of the public.

Why don't you stick with your arm-chair EV expertise, while the rest of us make use of what we've got? Autopilot has saved me a significant amount of fatigue as it is in the past year of driving. I used to get exhausted driving my leaf through traffic after work. Although I never crashed, I have "dozed" off before, and that was far more dangerous than any semi-autonomous system. There are millions of other fatigued drivers on the road each day. hundreds of accidents happen daily (some of which are fatal), while we "wait for FSD to be ready". Inaction can be just as irresponsible.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Why don't you stick with your arm-chair EV expertise, while the rest of us make use of what we've got? Autopilot has saved me a significant amount of fatigue as it is in the past year of driving. I used to get exhausted driving my leaf through traffic after work. Although I never crashed, I have "dozed" off before, and that was far more dangerous than any semi-autonomous system. There are millions of other fatigued drivers on the road each day. hundreds of accidents happen daily (some of which are fatal), while we "wait for FSD to be ready". Inaction can be just as irresponsible.
You want to talk about inaction? What are you or anyone else doing choosing to drive when you're that tired, putting other people at risk? You simply have no business being on the road. It's an exercise in irresponsibility, not an excuse for relying on an admittedly inadequate self-driving system to make up for your own poor decisions. You want to take effective action? Get the hell off the road and take a nap.
 
GRA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Why don't you stick with your arm-chair EV expertise, while the rest of us make use of what we've got? Autopilot has saved me a significant amount of fatigue as it is in the past year of driving. I used to get exhausted driving my leaf through traffic after work. Although I never crashed, I have "dozed" off before, and that was far more dangerous than any semi-autonomous system. There are millions of other fatigued drivers on the road each day. hundreds of accidents happen daily (some of which are fatal), while we "wait for FSD to be ready". Inaction can be just as irresponsible.
You want to talk about inaction? What are you or anyone else doing choosing to drive when you're that tired, putting other people at risk? You simply have no business being on the road. It's an exercise in irresponsibility, not an excuse for relying on an admittedly inadequate self-driving system to make up for your own poor decisions. You want to take effective action? Get the hell off the road and take a nap.

His LEAF makes him tired, mine did too, Driving with AP reduced fatigue, you would know this if you ever drove one long distance. I am vastly more alert in my 3 than any car I have ever owned.
 
GRA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Why don't you stick with your arm-chair EV expertise, while the rest of us make use of what we've got? Autopilot has saved me a significant amount of fatigue as it is in the past year of driving. I used to get exhausted driving my leaf through traffic after work. Although I never crashed, I have "dozed" off before, and that was far more dangerous than any semi-autonomous system. There are millions of other fatigued drivers on the road each day. hundreds of accidents happen daily (some of which are fatal), while we "wait for FSD to be ready". Inaction can be just as irresponsible.
You want to talk about inaction? What are you or anyone else doing choosing to drive when you're that tired, putting other people at risk? You simply have no business being on the road. It's an exercise in irresponsibility, not an excuse for relying on an admittedly inadequate self-driving system to make up for your own poor decisions. You want to take effective action? Get the hell off the road and take a nap.

It's called, "make it back in time to pick up the kids from day care after a long day at work", because heaven forbid I don't have to work or don't have kids. We don't always get to choose our circumstances.
 
GRA said:
You want to talk about inaction? What are you or anyone else doing choosing to drive when you're that tired, putting other people at risk? You simply have no business being on the road. It's an exercise in irresponsibility, not an excuse for relying on an admittedly inadequate self-driving system to make up for your own poor decisions. You want to take effective action? Get the hell off the road and take a nap.
May I suggest you simply not get on the road? You're obviously too filled with rage, so go sit in time-out before you get back on the road. :lol:

As others have suggested, life. Unless you want to make the incredulous claim that you've immediately pulled off the side of the road EVERY SINGLE TIME you've felt drowsy, and you took a nap. If you do want to make that claim, I'll call you a liar. If you don't want to make that claim, then feel free to retract your prior high horse statement.
 
Durandal said:
GRA said:
You want to talk about inaction? What are you or anyone else doing choosing to drive when you're that tired, putting other people at risk? You simply have no business being on the road. It's an exercise in irresponsibility, not an excuse for relying on an admittedly inadequate self-driving system to make up for your own poor decisions. You want to take effective action? Get the hell off the road and take a nap.
May I suggest you simply not get on the road? You're obviously too filled with rage, so go sit in time-out before you get back on the road. :lol:

As others have suggested, life. Unless you want to make the incredulous claim that you've immediately pulled off the side of the road EVERY SINGLE TIME you've felt drowsy, and you took a nap. If you do want to make that claim, I'll call you a liar. If you don't want to make that claim, then feel free to retract your prior high horse statement.
Nope, I didn't pull off the road the first time I felt drowsy while driving. It was summer 1987, I'd been driving over a decade, and I'd spent a long hot day at the Castle Air Force Base air show (well into triple digit temps on the apron, limited shade). I was in my Dad's new Acura Legend because my Datsun 2000 didn't have AC, and went into micro-sleep while on the freeway coming back. Woke an instant later as I started to drift out of my lane, over-corrected (over-assisted power-steering with no feel) and felt the car start to lift off its inside wheels. Got it back under control without hurting anyone or myself, pulled off at the next exit and took a nap, something I've done ever since anytime I feel drowsy while driving. Most auto accidents involve one or more of the four D's: Drunk, Drugged, Drowsy or Distracted. Anyone's right to make stupid decisions ends when they endanger others who aren't voluntary participants in their stupidity. If you're going to be late, be late. Beats being referred to as 'the late' in a premature obituary, but far worse is if you hurt anyone else on your way out the Darwin Awards door. I can't imagine a parent voluntarily choosing to drive while drowsy so they can pick up their kids and put them at higher risk as well. Would anyone say that doing so while drunk is acceptable?

So yeah, I do have rage against people who engage in behavior they know to be dangerous and who knowingly put others at risk without their consent. I've engaged in lots of activities that have higher than average risk, and I'd strenuously object to any attempt by the government to prohibit me from choosing to do them. But the second I endanger others who haven't consented, the government has both the right and duty to stop me and impose a punishment for doing so. Maximizing personal rights also requires maximizing personal responsibility.
 
GRA said:
Durandal said:
GRA said:
You want to talk about inaction? What are you or anyone else doing choosing to drive when you're that tired, putting other people at risk? You simply have no business being on the road. It's an exercise in irresponsibility, not an excuse for relying on an admittedly inadequate self-driving system to make up for your own poor decisions. You want to take effective action? Get the hell off the road and take a nap.
May I suggest you simply not get on the road? You're obviously too filled with rage, so go sit in time-out before you get back on the road. :lol:

As others have suggested, life. Unless you want to make the incredulous claim that you've immediately pulled off the side of the road EVERY SINGLE TIME you've felt drowsy, and you took a nap. If you do want to make that claim, I'll call you a liar. If you don't want to make that claim, then feel free to retract your prior high horse statement.
Nope, I didn't pull off the road the first time I felt drowsy while driving. It was summer 1987, I'd been driving over a decade, and I'd spent a long hot day at the Castle Air Force Base air show (well into triple digit temps on the apron, limited shade). I was in my Dad's new Acura Legend because my Datsun 2000 didn't have AC, and went into micro-sleep while on the freeway coming back. Woke an instant later as I started to drift out of my lane, over-corrected (over-assisted power-steering with no feel) and felt the car start to lift off its inside wheels. Got it back under control without hurting anyone or myself, pulled off at the next exit and took a nap, something I've done ever since anytime I feel drowsy while driving. Most auto accidents involve one or more of the four D's: Drunk, Drugged, Drowsy or Distracted. Anyone's right to make stupid decisions ends when they endanger others who aren't voluntary participants in their stupidity. If you're going to be late, be late. Beats being referred to as 'the late' in a premature obituary, but far worse is if you hurt anyone else on your way out the Darwin Awards door. I can't imagine a parent voluntarily choosing to drive while drowsy so they can pick up their kids and put them at higher risk as well. Would anyone say that doing so while drunk is acceptable?

So yeah, I do have rage against people who engage in behavior they know to be dangerous and who knowingly put others at risk without their consent. I've engaged in lots of activities that have higher than average risk, and I'd strenuously object to any attempt by the government to prohibit me from choosing to do them. But the second I endanger others who haven't consented, the government has both the right and duty to stop me and impose a punishment for doing so. Maximizing personal rights also requires maximizing personal responsibility.


Great! So you admit to having gotten drowsy while driving too! That makes you a hypocrite.

I never said I was driving WHILE drowsy. I don't know when I've dozed off, until it happens. AFTER that, I have methods of dealing with it, which I'm sure most everyone else has as well. What kind of moron do you think we are to choose to start a drive, WHILE sleepy?!
I don't have the luxury of taking a nap before the drive, JUST-IN-CASE, because my level of fatigue and traffic conditions change daily. I don't go into my drive home half-asleep. I slog through ~1hr of traffic daily. Somewhere along the way, I may get tired, just like most other people, INCLUDING YOU it seems!

Would I like to live closer to shorten my commute? SURE, but that would put my wife at risk, since she works in the opposite side of home. We don't get always get to choose our circumstances.
 
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