RonDawg
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Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Wed May 01, 2019 2:20 pm

smkettner wrote:I expect 20 years and 300,000 miles retaining 80% capacity before "lasts life of the car" statement is used.
Many modern ICEVs can hardly make it to half that time before ending up in a junkyard, particularly if it has a CVT.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

smkettner
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Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Wed May 01, 2019 3:54 pm

RonDawg wrote:
smkettner wrote:I expect 20 years and 300,000 miles retaining 80% capacity before "lasts life of the car" statement is used.
Many modern ICEVs can hardly make it to half that time before ending up in a junkyard, particularly if it has a CVT.
I would not buy those cars either.

No CVT or any transmission is a definite plus for EVs. My 2001 F150 transmission (4r70w) still going great at 200,000 miles.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

RonDawg
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Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Wed May 01, 2019 4:41 pm

More and more ICEV and hybrid cars are getting CVT's as time passes. So you may not have much choice in the future if you don't want a CVT, and even going to a manual is increasingly becoming difficult in the US.

But even if it doesn't...modern cars are not designed to be easily and cheaply repaired. The reason many are going to junkyards in surprisingly good shape otherwise is because something is broken and costs more to fix than the car is worth.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

WetEV
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Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Wed May 01, 2019 6:30 pm

smkettner wrote:I expect 20 years and 300,000 miles retaining 80% capacity before "lasts life of the car" statement is used.
Why not 99 years and 5 billion miles retaining 99.99% of capacity? At minimum, of course.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
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Nubo
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Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Wed May 01, 2019 6:52 pm

Regular miles, or "Phoenix miles"(tm)? :lol:
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

WetEV
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Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Wed May 01, 2019 8:33 pm

Nubo wrote:Regular miles, or "Phoenix miles"(tm)? :lol:
Or we might ask if a battery that far outlives the car is a realistic requirement. Might it be more economical to produce a battery that lasts just about a long as the rest of the car? Sometimes longer, sometimes not?

Or a kingpin, for that matter. Ask Henry Ford.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

smkettner
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Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Wed May 01, 2019 8:36 pm

WetEV wrote:
smkettner wrote:I expect 20 years and 300,000 miles retaining 80% capacity before "lasts life of the car" statement is used.
Why not 99 years and 5 billion miles retaining 99.99% of capacity? At minimum, of course.
Because I am just looking for something comparable.

What is your point except to troll the issue?
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

WetEV
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Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Wed May 01, 2019 8:44 pm

smkettner wrote:
WetEV wrote:
smkettner wrote:I expect 20 years and 300,000 miles retaining 80% capacity before "lasts life of the car" statement is used.
Why not 99 years and 5 billion miles retaining 99.99% of capacity? At minimum, of course.
Because I am just looking for something comparable.

What is your point except to troll the issue?
Comparable to what?

Economics. Making batteries that far outlive the car doesn't add value, and adds cost.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
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SageBrush
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Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Thu May 02, 2019 2:24 am

WetEV wrote: Comparable to what?
He said a reliable ICE, which to him (and me) is 20 years and ~ 300k miles.
That is what I expect from my Tesla.

A LEAF is more along the lines of 5 - 8 years although cool climates do better.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
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Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Thu May 02, 2019 9:55 am

SageBrush wrote:
WetEV wrote: Comparable to what?
He said a reliable ICE, which to him (and me) is 20 years and ~ 300k miles.
That is what I expect from my Tesla.

A LEAF is more along the lines of 5 - 8 years although cool climates do better.
Yes, the 2011 to early 2013 LEAF would be along the lines of 5 - 8 years or more. And of course, Nissan hasn't made any newer LEAFs since then, with improved chemistry and larger batteries. Right. Larger batteries will extend useful life, even if they lose capacity as the same percentage rate as a smaller battery.

A Tesla isn't a good bet, due to other reliability issues. Consumer Reports rates Model X as the worst, Model 3 as below average. Model S 2013, 2015 and 2016 are the best years for the Model S, with average reliability.
CR wrote:Model X SUV. Filled with enough gee-whiz gizmos to give William Gibson a thrill, the X seemingly sacrifices practicality and pragmatism for the purpose of showboating.
Nissan LEAF is rated at average reliability, however some years are higher and lower. 2016 is the worst, 2017, 2013 and 2011 are the best.

If 20+ year reliability is your goal, you shouldn't buy an electric car. Yet.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
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