Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
jvierra said:
I was an early adopter of the 2011 Nissan Leaf based on my strong convictions on global warning and the importance of green energy. I was fully aware of how crappy an 80 mile battery was, but I firmly believed that technology would improve over time and that a few years down the road I would be able to buy an upgraded battery to make my original investment worth it. While I have gotten 80K miles out of my leaf dealing with the constant issues with range (most people would not put up with the things I've done to get places in this car) and overall the car has been quite reliable - now that my range is down to 45-50 miles it's become far too limited to be useful for anything but the shortest around town trips. To say I have been incredibly disappointed in Nissan for complete lack of support for the buyers of their product, that would be a tremendous understatement.

...

I was not a Tesla fan-boy until I owned one. That extra 15K you spend to get a much better, much longer range car, that the company actually will support you and keep giving you free improvements while the car sits overnight in your driveway? And you can reasonably use the car on a cross country trip. That's the best freaking 15K you will EVER spend. The M3 might be the last car I have to buy.

WOW... Us 2011 Leaf owners are a dying breed - along with the battery. Fortunately, my commute is just 12 miles round trip (I live in Los Angeles and we measure our commute in hours not miles :b), so I'm still driving mine and could probably drive it for a couple more years. I'm down to 7 bars with about 37 *actual* miles of range - for some reason it still wants to say that I've got 50 miles when I top it off.

Like you, I've been thinking of upgrading the battery, and, like you, I've realized that it's a crap deal. After reading this thread it's a big, fat NO WAY. So, that leaves buying a new Leaf - and... why would I do that??? They remodeled it to look like a regular car - so all of the charm is gone. And, if it's just a regular car, then Nissan is definitely not my brand.

So, just like you, I've been looking at Tesla Model 3, and I have ONLY heard great things about the car. It sounds like they have had some bumps in the road with customer service and getting the left hand to talk to the right hand - but maybe that's starting to get ironed out?? Anyway, what a sexy vehicle - and I'm looking forward to having a road-trip car again. I'd love to just bust out and drive it down to San Diego or San Francisco one day.

I'm so glad you're happy, because it sounds like I'm going down that road soon. Thanks for your post, and if all goes to plan, I may never need to visit this blog again.
 
People are paying 10k for 2015 leafs. If you can buy a degraded leaf for 2k and spend 8k on the battery, it's basically the same.

I saw a leaf in CA with 4 bars for 2k. It's just a matter of time.

Just my 2c.

The major problem is insurance. They don't calculate the battery condition or warranty, so if you get into an accident, you're screwed...
 
Transtead said:
jvierra said:
I was an early adopter of the 2011 Nissan Leaf based on my strong convictions on global warning and the importance of green energy. I was fully aware of how crappy an 80 mile battery was, but I firmly believed that technology would improve over time and that a few years down the road I would be able to buy an upgraded battery to make my original investment worth it. While I have gotten 80K miles out of my leaf dealing with the constant issues with range (most people would not put up with the things I've done to get places in this car) and overall the car has been quite reliable - now that my range is down to 45-50 miles it's become far too limited to be useful for anything but the shortest around town trips. To say I have been incredibly disappointed in Nissan for complete lack of support for the buyers of their product, that would be a tremendous understatement.

...

I was not a Tesla fan-boy until I owned one. That extra 15K you spend to get a much better, much longer range car, that the company actually will support you and keep giving you free improvements while the car sits overnight in your driveway? And you can reasonably use the car on a cross country trip. That's the best freaking 15K you will EVER spend. The M3 might be the last car I have to buy.

WOW... Us 2011 Leaf owners are a dying breed - along with the battery. Fortunately, my commute is just 12 miles round trip (I live in Los Angeles and we measure our commute in hours not miles :b), so I'm still driving mine and could probably drive it for a couple more years. I'm down to 7 bars with about 37 *actual* miles of range - for some reason it still wants to say that I've got 50 miles when I top it off.

Like you, I've been thinking of upgrading the battery, and, like you, I've realized that it's a crap deal. After reading this thread it's a big, fat NO WAY. So, that leaves buying a new Leaf - and... why would I do that??? They remodeled it to look like a regular car - so all of the charm is gone. And, if it's just a regular car, then Nissan is definitely not my brand.

So, just like you, I've been looking at Tesla Model 3, and I have ONLY heard great things about the car. It sounds like they have had some bumps in the road with customer service and getting the left hand to talk to the right hand - but maybe that's starting to get ironed out?? Anyway, what a sexy vehicle - and I'm looking forward to having a road-trip car again. I'd love to just bust out and drive it down to San Diego or San Francisco one day.

I'm so glad you're happy, because it sounds like I'm going down that road soon. Thanks for your post, and if all goes to plan, I may never need to visit this blog again.

To you and jvierra: EXACTLY
 
People are paying 10k for 2015 leafs. If you can buy a degraded leaf for 2k and spend 8k on the battery, it's basically the same.

You get zero warranty left with the 2011, and a Crappy heating system. Also, no SOC display. So not quite basically the same - just somewhat similar. I think looking for a 12 bar pack from a 2014 or 2015 wreck (or even a late 2013) for $2k would make for a better deal, even after a couple of grand for labor. Even an 11 bar pack would be cheaper and give substantially more range.
 
LeftieBiker said:
People are paying 10k for 2015 leafs. If you can buy a degraded leaf for 2k and spend 8k on the battery, it's basically the same.

You get zero warranty left with the 2011, and a Crappy heating system. Also, no SOC display. So not quite basically the same - just somewhat similar. I think looking for a 12 bar pack from a 2014 or 2015 wreck (or even a late 2013) for $2k would make for a better deal, even after a couple of grand for labor. Even an 11 bar pack would be cheaper and give substantially more range.


Well, that's exactly what I did. But in a few years, I suspect that the supply of batteries will be drying up. Edit: Unless aftermarket batteries become available
 
It looks like it will be possible to install 30kwh packs in older Leafs, so with age weeding out the defective and weaker packs (or at least revealing them), that should be an option for another 5-7 years.
 
LeftieBiker said:
It looks like it will be possible to install 30kwh packs in older Leafs, so with age weeding out the defective and weaker packs (or at least revealing them), that should be an option for another 5-7 years.

What makes you say this? I know evsenhanced is working on this, but not aware of anyone making it work yet...

30->40 appears possible with cell swaps.
 
LeftieBiker said:
It looks like it will be possible to install 30kwh packs in older Leafs, so with age weeding out the defective and weaker packs (or at least revealing them), that should be an option for another 5-7 years.
Do you mean putting a 30 kWh pack into a 24 kWh LEAF ?

If so, please provide details
 
SageBrush said:
LeftieBiker said:
It looks like it will be possible to install 30kwh packs in older Leafs, so with age weeding out the defective and weaker packs (or at least revealing them), that should be an option for another 5-7 years.
Do you mean putting a 30 kWh pack into a 24 kWh LEAF ?

If so, please provide details

They have successfully done it in Eastern Europe, IIRC. I don't remember if they swapped in a whole pack or just modules. They are having trouble with getting the full 30kwh capacity to be recognized by the BMS, but worst case seems to be a 'super 24kwh' pack with reserve capacity that gets used as it degrades.
 
LeftieBiker said:
SageBrush said:
LeftieBiker said:
It looks like it will be possible to install 30kwh packs in older Leafs, so with age weeding out the defective and weaker packs (or at least revealing them), that should be an option for another 5-7 years.
Do you mean putting a 30 kWh pack into a 24 kWh LEAF ?

If so, please provide details

They have successfully done it in Eastern Europe, IIRC. I don't remember if they swapped in a whole pack or just modules. They are having trouble with getting the full 30kwh capacity to be recognized by the BMS, but worst case seems to be a 'super 24kwh' pack with reserve capacity that gets used as it degrades.

What I have seen is a cell swap using the 24kWh BMS. Since there are different discharge curves, the battery reports --- after ~50% capacity and then drives the other half until turtle.

Lacking any range indication for half the battery is, IMO, not useful. I am not aware of anyone who has actually gotten a 30kWh pack to pair with an older leaf. It may be possible using a S model 2016+, as that MY already supported 30 kWh. Only evsenhanced would know as theirs is the only tool that could even attempt it. I am almost sure a 2011/2012 would be unable to talk to the pack due to protocol differencea between the BMS and VCM.

The 24 kWh BMS should also slightly overcharge the cells. Not recommended.
 
LeftieBiker said:
but worst case seems to be a 'super 24kwh' pack with reserve capacity that gets used as it degrades.
That is a guess on your part. If true then the range will be that of a 30 kWh battery even if the range meter only accounts for the first 24 kWh.

Seems easy enough to check. It would also be easy to use since the actual range would be ~ 1.25x of displayed.
 
SageBrush said:
LeftieBiker said:
but worst case seems to be a 'super 24kwh' pack with reserve capacity that gets used as it degrades.
That is a guess on your part. If true then the range will be that of a 30 kWh battery even if the range meter only accounts for the first 24 kWh.

Seems easy enough to check. It would also be easy to use since the actual range would be ~ 1.25x of displayed.

No, the issue is that the 24kwh BMS won't let the 30kwh pack charge to full voltage. Thus the 'hidden reserve' but no extra range. I'll get a link later.
 
LeftieBiker said:
SageBrush said:
LeftieBiker said:
but worst case seems to be a 'super 24kwh' pack with reserve capacity that gets used as it degrades.
That is a guess on your part. If true then the range will be that of a 30 kWh battery even if the range meter only accounts for the first 24 kWh.

Seems easy enough to check. It would also be easy to use since the actual range would be ~ 1.25x of displayed.

No, the issue is that the 24kwh BMS won't let the 30kwh pack charge to full voltage. Thus the 'hidden reserve' but no extra range. I'll get a link later.
That is interesting; it sounds to me like an Ahr restriction.

So then it could be viewed as a battery reserve. That is very nice, and quite useful to someone like me who is happy with a 24 kWh range that lasts more years. I would love to be able to change my view of my LEAF as a disposable car. Of course getting a replacement battery to NM and installed is a money and logistics question but that is my problem and not LEAF specific.

:: fingers crossed ::
 
Leftie,

I think you may be right. bkvszomorito says he swapped a 30kwh pack into a 24kwh car by replacing the battery and VCM. This may need Nissan to reprogram the intelligent key.

bkvszomorito mentioned it required a car built 3/2013 or later. He didn't say anything about a reserve or only getting 24kWh capacity, however.

He did have such a reserve issue when putting 40kWh cells with a 30 kWh BMS. That only happened once and he's still testing. On charging, it only put 30kWh in and stopped.
 
Lothsahn said:
Leftie,

I think you may be right. bkvszomorito says he swapped a 30kwh pack into a 24kwh car by replacing the battery and VCM. This may need Nissan to reprogram the intelligent key.
What is the VCM ? Did he have to open the packs and swap this component ?
Regarding programming, do you mean as an alternative to swapping ?
 
SageBrush said:
Lothsahn said:
Leftie,

I think you may be right. bkvszomorito says he swapped a 30kwh pack into a 24kwh car by replacing the battery and VCM. This may need Nissan to reprogram the intelligent key.
What is the VCM ? Did he have to open the packs and swap this component ?
Regarding programming, do you mean as an alternative to swapping ?

The VCM is the onboard charging control module. It also controls other drivetrain components. This is the topic (Thanks for the name of the guy, Lothsahn!) in question. It starts off as speculation, but eventually gets real:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=27600
 
^^ I am not clear what he did or how he did it.
It sounds like his car is a 30 kWh model that now has cell modules from a 40 kWh model but past that I am confused.

There is mention in the thread of using modules from a 30 kWh pack in a 24 kWh model but I cannot find details of how this was done.
 
Both the 30kwh and 40kwh packs use modules that are physically different from any of the 24kwh packs, so once you figure out how to install the modules and connect them to a CANBUS adapter and the car's high voltage cables, they don't differ that much from each other. The only setup so far that provides 40kwh of usable capacity to a formerly 24kwh Leaf is one that uses ALL of the battery-related electronics from the 40kwh car. That's my understanding, anyway. People have been using 30kwh modules in Vectrix VX-1 motorcycle/scooter conversions for a couple of years now, but that's much easier because they use fewer modules to produce the 146 or so volts a VX-1 needs, and they often use no BMS at all, except the one in the bike's charger.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The VCM is the onboard charging control module. It also controls other drivetrain components. This is the topic (Thanks for the name of the guy, Lothsahn!) in question. It starts off as speculation, but eventually gets real:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=27600
FWIW, the OP of that thread didn't refer to the VCM, used the wrong units and hasn't been back since Jan 20, 2019.
 
cwerdna said:
LeftieBiker said:
The VCM is the onboard charging control module. It also controls other drivetrain components. This is the topic (Thanks for the name of the guy, Lothsahn!) in question. It starts off as speculation, but eventually gets real:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=27600
FWIW, the OP of that thread didn't refer to the VCM, used the wrong units and hasn't been back since Jan 20, 2019.

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=nissan+leaf+VCM
 
Back
Top